I’ve had a reader have trouble replying to a post I did some time ago on giants. I wanted you all to get the reply. I have block-quoted any response I have to the material. Here’s the post:
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This is a very interesting post, along with the previous post about Giants. Anything abnormal always injects a high dose of curiosity into individuals, unless you really don’t care about the world around you at all.
Let me point to all of you to something more than just bones, archeology, history, dinosaurs and polydactylism (see following post on Giants). Other than alien and/or angelic apparitions and demon possesions, how about live Giants and Live mythical-like creatures?
For Living Giants, See Steve Quayle’s Books here:
Genesis 6 Giants, Master Builders of Prehistoric and Ancient Civilizations
http://www.stevequayle.com/books/gen6cover.html
I have Steve’s book. It’s a good compilation of reports with FEW examples of modern, living giants. But they are an anomaly and cannot be used as evidence of a race of people exceeding seven feet tall. For allof Steve’s work (and his is the best collection out there), producing newspaper articles from the 19th century about the discovery of giant bones isn’t sufficient. It is known now that at least some of those finds were in fact dinosaurs and prehistoric mammals. That means many others could have been as well, had they been investigated . . . it’s just that people 150 years ago didn’t know what they had. It’s interesting but not proof of anything.
LongWalkers, Return of the Nephilim
http://www.stevequayle.com/books/Longwalkers.html
For very interesting and captivating interviews with Steve Quayle about living Giant sightings and reports and about the swine flu, and more, see:
Living giant reports are like proof for extraterrestrials — it’s merely hearsay and anecdotal “evidence” that falls FAR short of actual proof. Or it’s “a renegage military guy told me this and that and he saw giants in the lab.” Yeah. Right. Imagine what it would be like if people had to defend their faith this way. Give me real DNA, real giant specimens, that sort of thing. Anything less isn’t sufficient.
Flashpoints and Giants (with George Noory):
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2008/12/03
Illuminati, Giants and dead microbiologists (with George Noory – Just listened to this last night)
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2009/08/10
and
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/malaysian-report-12-ft-giant
CAVEAT: For Coast to Coast AM full downloads above, you must sign up ( not sure, because I did a few months past ) to StreamLink (see: http://www.coasttocoastam.com/pages/streamlink). Although, Steve is a long life time (35 years) dedicated researcher on all kinds of paranormal event around the globe: Biological Terrorism, Illuminati, Ancient History, Giants etc. We may not all agree on what he says at everypoint, but a very diligent researcher indeed, especially, in my interest, when it comes down to talk about LIVNG Giants.
CAVEAT 2: There are 4 full hours of downloadable MP3s in the links above at coasttocoastam.com. The first hour (Hour 1) is only generic global news, I recommend to only listen to Hours 2, 3, and 4, first and then listen to Hour 1 if curious.
CAVEAT 3: What distinguishes these Giants with just tall people (7-9 feet?)? Well, according to Steve and his reported sightings and military contacts:
– They are between 8 to 12 feet tall
– They have six fingers/toes
– They run super fast at abnormal speeds
– They can abnormally lift tons of weighs
– Their smell is uncomfortable
– Maybe a few other features that is escaping me
Where are the actual specimens? Actual science from which these conclusions are drawn? It is, sadly, only hearsay, and hearers must simply take it on faith. Let’s have the real deal before we believe it. That isn’t an unreasonable request.
For Mothman creatures (research Mothman in Google), see LA Marzulli and Travis Shortt here:
Mothman Theories and Reports
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2009/07/14
Again, download Hours 2, 3, and 4 above. Very interesting!
There is a Interview-movie being produced by Travis and Marzulli entitled “Dark Wings”:
Thanks Mike for this repost. I encourage everyone to, at least, listen to the interviews above before dismissing anything.
First of all, I agree with you that when it comes down to discovering and analyzing said Giant bones that it may be a slippery ground; because it is. Many of those alleged bones were misidentified, no issue there.
Now, my interest is about living living Giants and mythological creatures like Mothman. I know that “WE” (that is, US here) do not have “proof” of any of this and you will probably never have such proof because even if there is proof, the military bases or what not will not expose them. In the same token, we know that Aliens and/or Angels and/or Demons are part of the Extraterrestrials phenomenon, not because of proof, but evidence, which is not the same. I did not use the word “proof” but evidence very carefully. Once again, at least, listen to the interviews with Steve and Marzulli.
One of the pilots that came on the show with George Noory and Steve Quayle gave his testimony about what happened for a good five minutes. This is not just “some pilot told me this”. The evidence about all this is overwhelming and is not to be readily windowed in this manner. Do we have living alien specimens that are shown to the public? Then, why would we have living specimens of Giants as you see in the Steve’s book? As Steve says very clearly “People say “Ha ha, that Guy Steve believes in Giants, [ to George Noory ], Now I don’t BELIEVE in Giants, I KNOW they exist…” Realize that I’m not saying that, he said that and I am not putting my cards in just because Steve says so, BUT let’s take it into consideration. We know the supernatural is real with the much more established truth about said Aliens/Angels/Demons, WHY would this not be anymore true? Once again, I repeat myself, I have dictating that this is proof, but evidence about this truth, WHICH is attested in the scriptures right in Genesis 6 and the rest of the Torah. This is all part of the research.
Sorry, correction: ” I have dictating that this is proof “, I meant to type “I have NOT dictated that this is proof…”
@blop2008: I just need more than anecdotes. That doesn’t mean I think anyone is untrustworthy. It means I’m not content to have someone process an experience or “sighting” or data for me – I’d rather I do that myself.
Mike, I don’t know if you listened to the interviews, but for the first interview (flashpoint & Giants) the pilot came on record and testified himself about what he saw. The second most recent interview is much more interesting, have you listened to it? Unless you wish to speak with the pilot (rethorical) how much more closely to the event and sighting do you want to get?
If the supernatural would not be well established in demonology, aliens/UFOS, and angelic apparitions, among other paranormal phenomenon, then this would be more doubtful. But, this isn’t so much the case. If this is indeed true, that there are ferocious giants with six fingers/toes, running at abnormal speeds and picking up huge rocks weighing tons and throwing them, then it does not surprise me, because all is coherent with ancient texts including the Biblical record, besides the fact that we know the supernatural is very real and tied up with demons/angels as the Bible records.
You know that. Once again, this is not proof, but very compelling indeed, very interesting; certainly.
Blop, you present an interesting point. The pilot gave his eyewitness account. But believing an eyewitness over a radio show is hard thing for me to do. That is kind of like asking me to believe that there was someone on a cell phone, on a plane during 9/11 saying, “Let’s Roll.” Can you imagine what would happen if George Bush had heard this radio show. He might have declared war on the Giants.
My point is, as much as there is in the Bible about this subject, that does not make it safe to believe anything on Coast to Coast. In my humble opinion, that show is designed to give disinformation on an entertaining platform.
Kevin,
Do you even listen to Coast to Coast? If you do, then you don’t listen very carefully or don’t interpret the show correctly. You probably never heard George outside his booth. Coast to Coast is an open show with all kinds of MIS-information but not necessarily DIS-information. For instance, Michael Heiser himself appeared on Coast to Coast, that means I won’t believe him then! Michael S. Heiser the host of PaleoBabble is just another Sitchin; that’s a shot in the foot. There’s plenty of credible people that appear on Coast to Coast, YOU have to follow up with what you hear on coast to Coast outside Coast to Coast. I have email Stephen Quayle and had email exchanges with him to clarify some points, I have red his material just like I read Heiser’s material; the information has to be verified, something that doesn’t look like you haven’t done yourself.
Your comment tells me you haven’t read what I said a few comments above nor the main post above. I did not say that I believe Steve Quayle like the ridiculous example you provide in your comment with Bush, I said “let’s take it into consideration” because it is coherent with the supernatural and extraterrestrial phenomenon. Read Jacque Vallee, read and watch Joe Jordan, and other experts in the field of Ufology and 4th kind abductions. The phenomenon is real and it is coherent with said living giants. It’s not proof, it’s evidence. Evidence does not have to be physical.
In my humble opinion your comment should be thought over since it does not represent what I was trying to portray nor is it relevant with the established phenomenon of the paranormal.
I think I’ve lost track of where this started.
I should add that, while I think Steve Quayle is a fine guy, we have some clear points of disagreement on the giant issue.
Mike, correct me if I am wrong on this, but the ” disagreements ” you are referring to are based on living tall people – the first link I point to above – based on his book: Genesis 6 Giants, Master Builders of Prehistoric and Ancient Civilizations and giant bones, but not about living giants with six fingers six toes running at abnormal speeds throwing huge rocks that weight tons and stinking bad with a sulfurous smell. Those reports may not be true ( there a few reports like that so far, maybe more, it’s not just the military pilot report) OR inaccurate / distorted.
However, If those reports are indeed true, then it’s coherent with ancient paranormal events as we see in the Bible, then I am saying ” Hey, take a look at this “, it matches what we know about the paranormal.
I can’t recall exactly what preceded this discussion thread (too lazy to look right now!), but some comments:
1. I don’t believe that the giants referred to in biblical texts were any taller than the extreme heights we see today – upper six feet; mid to upper seven feet. If we go with the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1 Samuel 17 (and we ought to, since there are dozens of other discrepancies in that text that the Qumran material makes sense of), then we have no (as in zero) description in the Bible of anyone over seven feet tall. All we are left with is “the guy was tall” descriptions with no numbers and the description of Og’s bed or sarcophagus, which isn’t his body. I’m guessing he was over seven feet by the description — but that’s the point: I’m guessing, since we are given no description.
2. There is no textual reason to think that polydactylism and giantism are necessarily related. There is *one* biblical instance to this, but nothing that says one was a trait of the other. Everywhere it’s seen today, polydactylism would be classified as a handicap, not a physical asset. The Bible actually never refers to polydactylism as a physical asset either.
3. I do not think that these giants are necessarily to be related at all to ancient building projects like the pyramids, Stonehenge, Baalbek, etc. There is no textual link here; most of what you’ll read in popular (mostly Christian) books is speculation (“I’m going to tie point A to point B because that makes sense to me” sort of argumentation).
In summary on this, like any other subject, I am evidence driven, not speculation driven. Show me the texts or something else that gives me a real data point. Speculation is a waste of time.
Mike,
I agree with point 1
I agree with point 2
I agree with point 3
However, the Bible is supposedly not the only reference to giants, just like the flood is not only found in the Hebrew text. That Genesis 6 or other passages do not specify the height, that 1 Samuel actually says 6-7 feet or that polydactylism is not described as a physical asset does not mean you will not take into consideration something that may clarify the past. As if you never speculate. One can speculate but clarify it to the recipients as such.
I leave this on the table as you do for your UFO blog about demons, angels and physical extraterrestrials (whether there is overlap or not) from other planets being the source of what we see in the UFO field. That’s all.
Your clarification is helpful for others who haven’t read your material elsewhere. Thanks. I’ll leave it here now 🙂
I’m not actually certain I follow what point you’re making. The ET thing is inherently speculative; this is far less less so.
Come on Mike, and you have been part of the ancientofdays conferences. ET isn’t speculative, Joe Jordan isn’t speculative, Marzulli isn’t speculative. Physical Extraterrestrials you mean? Yes, I agree, that’s not what Im referring to. Im referring to the extradimentional, the supernatural for which we have evidence. You know that. My point is That the understanding that the Sons of God mated with women and produced giants or other similar weird creatures isn’t just attested in the Bible; it’s not just ancient texts stuff. If these reports of Giants (Quayle) and let’s not forget Mothman (Marzulli) and other reported creatures around the world that are either extradimentional and/or physical is then coherent with ancient texts (although the granular details are diversed). Near Death Experiences are speculative? Come on Mike. That’s the point.
All of it is speculative — but that isn’t my gripe. My gripe is that often the speculative nature of this sort of thing is cast as “prophetic fulfillment” or “Bible teaching” or some other sort of research put forth as though it weren’t speculation. I’ve heard a lot of wacky things at AOD conferences, but I try not to be too critical. I think I’m reaching a saturation point, though. All I want is for people to be honest and do some real research — critical thinking sort of stuff, not surface-level research and even shallower (is that a word) thinking.
Come on Mike, and you have been part of the ancientofdays conferences. ET isn’t speculative, Joe Jordan isn’t speculative, Marzulli isn’t speculative. Physical Extraterrestrials you mean? Yes, I agree, that’s not what Im referring to. Im referring to the extradimentional, the supernatural for which we have evidence. You know that. My point is That the understanding that the Sons of God mated with women and produced giants or other similar weird creatures isn’t just attested in the Bible
There is no actual evidence for an ET life form, so without that, it’s by definition speculation. The same goes for extradimensional (though I consider that more coherent). All we have now for “proof” of these other dimensions is equations. An equation isn’t proof that another dimension truly exists, much less that a being came from another dimension. This has no direct correlation to the sons of God issue though, if it were another dimension is established, then that is at least on the table as a correlation for “spiritual world” talk in the Bible. My point here is that such talk may transcend any natural realm (and other dimensions must be natural, as they would be part of a created order). Since any being other than God would also have to be created, there is a possible correlation with such talk, but lacking one half of the correlation, it’s all speculation.
And that doesn’t even get us to how to parse Genesis 6 (there’s more than one way to approach that, and I’m not referring to the Sethite nonsense).
Mike, what about Goliath….how tall was he? I was always told over 9’…..
I think the reading in the Dead Sea Scrolls for Goliath at 6′ 6″ is the correct reading. See
http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2008/07/biblical-giants-and-dinosaur-bones/
Hi Mike,
Speaking of different ways to parse out Genesis 6, i heard a “new” interpretation of that chapter last week listening to Kevin Smith [who likes to, how shall i put this… “alienize” just about every text of scripture. At least from my experience listening to him over the last few years].. but i digress…
His interpretation of Genesis 6 goes as follows: It was not the “sons of God” [bene ha’elohim] ‘from which’ the nephilim [giants] came to be, but the chapter merely mentions the nephilim as a ‘time marker’ to when the sons of god came down, and subsequently married of the daughters of men…
He read the text on air, and i do see where he is ‘coming from’. He’s saying the text merely states the ‘nephilim were on the earth’ at that time, and that they were there *already*… therefore the nephilim didn’t come about from the sexual union of the sons of god with the daughters of men.
I hope i’ve explained that adequately… If so, is there more of a direct link in the Hebrew text than our common english translation? My understanding of Hebrew [which is exceedingly limited] is that “tense” is not present in Hebrew. Perhaps that supports his idea of the need for a ‘time marker’… but i must say that when i read the english translation it seems to “want to” tell me that it was this union of “divine being” and human women that created these ‘aberrations’…these giants… and the flood was the means to ‘reboot’ the genetic purity of mankind after this… etc. Otherwise we are left with a mystery as to where these giants came from…
Is there a silver bullet that destroys his argument? Or is it just a question of interpreting a text that is more or less open to both theories?
this is possible, but it runs contrary to how a number of writers in the Second Temple period took the passage, FWIW. That reading isn’t driven by anything in the grammar (nor does the grammar oppose it). It’s a semantic argument, and not without coherence problems. Here’s what I mean. It requires the writer to have *only* mentioned the nephilim to mark a period, and yet in verse 4, when the writer takes the time to describe offspring of the sons of God, the nephilim are mentioned. Why bring them into the passage (vv. 1-4) in *that* verse? In other words, this argument would work better if the Nephilim had been mentioned somewhere else in vv. 1-3, thereby *disconnecting* them from the sons of God and the women who bore them offspring. Putting the word in v. 4 makes them part of the offspring conversation, when putting them somewhere else would insulate the offspring from nephilim. The occurrence *in* v. 4 is why Second temple interpreters took them as offspring (not to mention comparative myth-religious texts from other cultures).
I was on Kevin’s show once; liked the experience.
Thanks Mike…
Seems to me the Bible [OT and NT] has plenty of places where the writer of the text is trying [for many reasons] to walk a line between giving as many of the relevant facts as possible, yet also being succinct. So your explanation makes perfect sense to me with this passage.
As for Kevin.. he’s very open to discussing a variety of topics, which is rare in the genre he tackles on his radio show, however he has these annoying ‘doctrines’ that all seem to relate back to “aliens”.
I wish i had a dollar every time he’s tried to make the claim that Elohim [in scripture] is ALWAYS plural. I’ve sent plenty of emails explaining Elohim can be either, depending on the context of the sentence it is used in, and he tells me I’m full of crap.
So he’s a bit of an enigma… to me at least.
the elohim thing just makes me ill. Like grammar doesn’t matter — something he depends on for communication every moment he’s doing his show.
About giants tallest then 6 foot
Bible 2 points
MSH 0 points
Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
Amos 2:9 Yet destroyed I the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit from above, and his roots from beneath.
I’m well aware of all these references — they’re in my upcoming book. I have five chs. on the giant clans. Maybe you see a number in them, but I don’t. 🙂 There are no numbers given in them. Take a look. In an era when the average male height (judging by actual skeletal remains) was around five and a half feet, someone a full foot taller would have been considered quite large.
I’ll let it to readers to judge whether your score is correct.
https://youtu.be/iLIs1P5rMKk?t=40s