In the first installment of this series, I talked about how certain systems of eschatology need the New Testament to distinguish between the Church and national Israel for certain elements of their eschatological system to work. Let me unpack that a bit again here by way of review.
Certain systems of eschatology (standard premillennialism, any view of a rapture) need Israel and the Church distinguished. For the premillennialist, national Israel must be distinct from the church so that the promise of a literal land (and so, literal millennial kingdom on earth) is still “out there” – a prophecy yet unfulfilled. It needs to be yet unfulfilled or there is no point to waiting for a literal millennium. If Israel got the land promised to them in the era of the OT, then one cannot use the Abrahamic covenant (Gen 12:1-3; Gen 15:1-6) as the basis for saying “there’s a literal kingdom in the Land still coming.” All rapture positions except the post-trib version need a distinction between Israel and the Church because they see the Church removed from the earth in Revelation 4 — and then it is argued that all the bad stuff in Revelation, the tribulation period, corresponds to “the time of Jacob’s trouble” in the OT – specific curses yet remaining on ISRAEL (not the Church). Then the Jewish Messiah returns to save ISRAEL and usher in the literal millennial kingdom. (Post-tribbers have the Church enduring the trouble with Israel, but still distinguish the Church and Israel because of its need to have a literal millennial kingdom). Daniel’s 70 weeks which are prophesied with respect to Jerusalem and Israel are thought to make this distinction clear. Since these “weeks” (actually periods of seven years) are dtermined upon Israel, and since a 70th week is presumed to still be yet future, there must be a prophetic role for national Israel. The missing 70th week is thought to be the seven year tribulation period noted above (but there is no actual verse in the Bible that makes that equation – we’ll get to that in future posts).
So, the need for a distinction is apparent. The need is fed (and argued) by certain assumptions: Israel never got the land promise fulfilled to it, so it’s still out there. And the land promises *need* to be fulfilled else God failed. Daniel’s prophecy forces a distinction between Israel and the Church. Several clear NT passages mar the neatness of all this. I focused a bit on Galatians 3, which explicitly has the Church as the inheritor of the promises to Abraham, thus replacing national Israel as the recipient of those promises. Paul’s statment that Christians (including non-Jews) are inheritors of the promises of Abraham ths raises the spectre that national Israel is displaced by the Church. It is usually objected “well, when did the Church get the promised land?” That’s actually easy to answer by proponents of an Israel=Church equation. They argue:
(1) the paramters of the kingdom of Solomon match the parameters of the land promises given to Abraham, so Israel *did* receive that promise;
(2) the land was promised not only as a place for the people of God to live, but a place for the presence of Yahweh to reside with his people (in a tabernacle and then the temple). The NT is clear that this place is now the whole world. How? The Spirit of Christ (who is Yahweh) descended at Pentecost (Acts 2) and now indwells every believer (Eph 2:22; 2 Tim 1:4; James 4:5; Romans 8:9-11). Each believer is the temple of Yahweh now (temple of the Holy Spirit) as is the entire Body of Christ (1 Cor 3:16; 6:19). That means wherever Christians are Yahweh is. And Christians have overspread the earth. This was the point of the great commission – to reclaim the nations for Yahweh. The Promised Land is now the whole earth, not just a plot the size of New Jersey. And the people of God inhabit that land. The Church has inherited the promises given to Abraham. God’s plan was fulfilled.
And if the above is all true, on what basis should we anticipate a literal earthly millennium? Isn’t the kingdom of the whole earth good enough?
Now, there are ways to still argue or justify a literal millennium, but my point isn’t to argue for that. It’s only to show that *that* position is *far* from being self-evident.
Next up: the covenants. One of the defenses of distinguishing Israel and the Church is, as we’ve already seen, the Abrahamic covenant. Those who keep Israel and the Church separate argue their position on the basis that Israel never got the land. Why is that important? Because, it is argued, the covenant with Abraham giving Israel the Land was unconditional — it was promised no matter what. God also made a covenant with David, that his dynastic line would never end (or, that one would ever sit on the throne of Israel who was not David’s descendant). That covenant was also uncondtional. Hence, it is argued, Israel MUST still get the land, and a descendant of David MUST sit on the literal throne in a literal kingdom in that literal land for these promises to be fulfilled. It is argued that the land and the throne promises remain unfulfilled — so we look to the future for all that.
The land part of this, as we have seen, is undermined by Galatians 3. It would also be undermined (potentially) of the covenant was *conditional*. Many theologians argue the covenant came with obedience conditions, conditions that were broken by Israel’s apostasy. Hence the promises are null and void (actually, they got passed on to the CHurch in this view through the New Covenant of Jer 31). It is also argued that Jesus has already fulfilled the “Davidic dynasty rule” promise of the Davidic covenant. No need for that in the future in a literal sense. So who’s right? Are the covenants conditional? Is the throne of David already occupied by the messiah?
In other words, is there more than one way to look at all this, so that no prophetic system is self evident (i.e., has the claim to being “biblical”)? Well, you know I’m going to answer yes to that, but why?
Stay tuned.
There can be so many cross over it gets confusing when you actually sit down to think out your views on this, i’m glad your doing this. The verse i was reminded of is Matt 23:37-39 This to me says the Lord is not finished with his kinsmen of the flesh.
I’m of the opinion there is a millennium, where all the as yet unfulfilled prophecies come to pass as expected by Jews today, i don’t see a rapture before the great tribulation but i hope the pre trib guys are right ! i’d be very happy to be wrong on that one, and in the midst of this Tribulation Matt 23:39 comes into play and the second coming of the Lord happens.
The confusing nature of all of this is pretty much my overall point. To say eschatology is an inexact science is quite an understatement. Most of the NB readers know by now I’m not a fan of any of the systems. The *traditional* rationale for premillennialism is actually pretty weak, but that doesn’t mean the idea can’t be defended. I’ll wait until I get to the end of all this to tell everyone where I’m at (and for many things in eschatology, I don’t have a “position”; I really don’t care).
I don’t believe the ‘church’ and “Israel’ are separate/different. Maybe I’m an oddball.
I believe ANYONE who comes to Yahshua, and believes on Him – and follows Him – seeks Him first in all things, becomes ‘Israel’. Whether or not they were genetically descended from any of the tribes.
I’m glad you’re doing this series Michael.
I do NOT believe in the pre-trib rapture false-doctrine.
I believe we will be here for the great tribulation. That is, if we don’t die first;).
I also believe that when Yeshua returns (after the great tribulation matt24), He will rule and reign with those endured to the end, on this earth for 1000 years. (thinking of scriptures in Rev.)
As to how all this comes together…when damascus is obliterated…and when the Ezekiel 38/39 war happens? I’m not clear of the ordering of events….but I know I’m seeking Him. And I’m praying that I may be found worth to escape all the things to come and be found worthy to stand before the Son of man. (thinking woman in the wilderness, protected from the dragon).
It’s be good if after this series – maybe you could do one on who all the different people are at the end times. I know there is the Bride….the Multitudes (those who didn’t seek Him, but also didn’t take the mark – but when they see Him they bow to Him and call on His Name?)….the woman who is hidden in the wilderness (the two witnesses? or the Bride? or neither?)
Sorry – that’s not very well laid out…but perhaps you get the gist of what I’m hinting at?
I think so – the belief in a literal millennium without a rapture is what used to be called “historic premillennialism.” It’s “historic” in that it was *the* premill position up to the late 19th century – when the idea of a rapture, a return of Jesus distinct from the 2nd coming, came into the discussion.
Wasn’t the Rapture doctrine from a vision in a church in the late 1800’s?
Didn’t the earliest church Fathers preach Jesus’ second coming is during a horrible time?
The church again is persecuted for not following the anti_christ and taking his mark?
If the church is gone, why rescue a fallen, forsaken world, with no Holy Spirit..?
( because when the Bride leaves so does the Holy Spirit)
The idea of a rapture (the way it’s talked about now) is of late origin (19th century). Since there are various “raptures” in the book of Revelation (people being caught up/away to heaven), you can find mention of such verbiage earlier, but not really the system.
apologies for all the horrible typos!
If no current view of eschatology is self-evident and yet God providentially allows for the scriptures from which all the views are taken to exist by way of revelation…then is this all a test of some sort for the church you think? Frankly, I think God does want us to grapple with these cloudy truths (he didn’t seem to mind revealing stuff about the end times to Daniel, Paul or John). The disciples asked the Lord what would be the sign of His coming. Paul lived, preached and wrote as if the second coming was imminent. So I think it falls on every generation of believers to try to ascertain if their generation is the last…but I wish there was a better way than picking one of the existing eschatological systems…clearly there isn’t one clear “winner”. All we really know is that Jesus is coming back at an unexpected hour…and that there may be signs leading up to that event ( that just so happen to be applicable to almost every age that has come to pass so far)…the important part is to be ready for it in either case.
I think for the biblical writers a lot of what we muddle over would have been known — but that’s part of why we have the problem. For example, when John wrote about “Babylon” in Revelation, of the great whore, he and his audience knew what he was speaking of. We have lost a good bit of the ancient context for a lot of the apocalyptic language of early Christianity (and the OT for that matter), and so we are left with a very muddled picture.
I agree, we have lost the meaning of the idioms of the times, and the things the early church took as truth, because they were right there. I have gone back and forth a lot in my years on this earth, as to eschatology. I was born Catholic, left that when He led me to find the bible so interesting …and it didn’t sinc up with tradition.
Lost family and friends and gained Jesus!
Thankfully when I have a question, it usually is answered by a scholar such as you. TY for being there!
you’re welcome; glad it’s useful at times.
As far as the rapture, I always took it as the resurrection for those who are alive and remain at the coming (2nd coming) of the Lord not a return of Jesus distinct from His second coming. This is why I am Post-Trib. As far as the Church and Israel being separate I guess with post-tribers it does not really matter. If they are separate then national or physical Israel still must be incorporated into the body of Christ. My main problem – right now – with eschatology is the passages about the return of Christ. It would seem that the writers of the NT expected His return within their generation and liftime and that the gospel was to be preached to all the world to prepare and gather-in the nations – which Paul says that the gospel had been preached to all nations. It would seem that unless there is some type of spiritualization of the return of the Lord – some form of partial preterism – then Christ has failed to come back or the Apostles have failed in their predictions.
understood; however, that biblical writers had XYZ expectation does not translate into they were right. An expectation (or “feel” of one) isn’t the same as an assertion to that effect in the text.
Yes, I agree, and that affects Biblical inerrancy since their ‘perspective’ or ‘expectation’ is ‘suppossed’ to be the perspective of God – how do we separate the two? I loved your posts on inerrancy – it answers so many problems – you should write a book on that. Also, some of the verses are not just expectations of the writers but the writers quoting Jesus. The ‘near’ and ‘at hand’ passages in Revelation, the ‘every eye will see him even THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM’, the passage about ‘there are some standing here who shall not taste death (I looked at the context, parallel passages, and various interpretations – all fall short of the simple meaning that the return of Christ, by his own words, meant a soon return), and last but not least the book of Hebrews, while encouraging patience and endurance until the Lords return so that they might receive the promise says ‘For yet a little while and He who is coming will come and will not delay.’ These are only a few that I think make a strong composite reflecting the intent of all the writers and Christ as to when He should return and this does not even talk about the passages regarding ‘this generation’ and all the arguments over that verse. Anyway, I am struggling with these things – it is hard to adopt a partial preterist point of view without falling into just spiritualizing anything to our liking kind of interpretation. I trust God will reveal and guide me to the truth in these matters because for me this issue is a deal breaker – eschatology and inerrancy are issues I could get around but the return of Chirst with such explicit and broard support from Christ and every writer from the NT except one (I think Jude) really needs to dealt with and to my understanding only a partial preterism is the answer and that just opens a whole other can of worms about Scriptual interpretation. Keep up the good work Mike you are appreciated with you many insights.
thanks; we try to be useful.
I was wondering when you are going to take this show on the road and talk to the boys at Futurequake about your thoughts/study. Off topic, any updates on the Divine council book? I’ve began sharing your findings with spouse, who is a new believer. Although it’s a little intense…she has shown some interest. Again, well done!
I’ve been on FutureQuake once (twice?). Not sure when that will happen again. Interviews are rare nowadays. Just no time. The last two I did I did in my car while driving around. Two chapters to go on the Myth book. Hope to have them in the bag by the end of June. Then it’s “done” (ha! – time for editing).
I see the distinction clearly. Jesus in Luke 19:42 and Paul in Romans 11:25 explain that Israel is blinded nationally for the church age. Blinded not replaced…
In Acts 1:6 just before the ascension the disciples ask Jesus, Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?
Does Jesus say… “Sorry not going to happen, Israel forfeited!”
Nope. He says It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
I’ll take His word for it.
and thus the problem is illustrated: is it blinded or replace, or both? Paul does say explicitly in Gal 3 that the Church inherits the promises given to Abraham – but does that mean “included in” the promises or “replacing the recipient of the promises altogether”? And the answer is….we don’t know. So we need to get off our high prophecy horses and admit that any of these positions are NOT self evident.
Since studying along with your site, it has opened my eyes to so much FOOD.
I need to hear the concise teaching from God’s Word, not the babble of today’s ministers with money on the mind and the building of their own kingdoms.
I used to think that there was going to be a Kingdom here on earth; now maybe, maybe not ..I just want to be wherever it is .. with HIM!
The kingdom is in the process of becoming what it is, just as Christians are in the process of becoming what they are. It’s an “already but not yet” phenomenon.
You know in going back and reading through Romans 9,10,and 11 there is no vagueness at all. The Church has not replaced Israel. It’s not even in question. It could not be stated any clearer than this:
As regards the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. (Romans 11:2829, ESV)
As regards to election –> irrevocable!
if they do not receive the savior, are they still elect?
No, they lose their birthright, by denying the Son of God.
If a Jewish person wants to share in God’s promise, they need to accept God’s savior.
I think the Galations argument is weak: 1) the context of Gal. 3 is about righteousness by faith; there is no mention of the other promises to Abraham, 2) It does not mention ‘Christians’ but Gentiles entering into the promise through faith in Christ. This is what makes one part of the true Israel. 3) National unbelieving Israel will inherit the promise of the land when as Romans 11 says all (a majority of the nation) physical Israel will believe and be saved and be grafted back in to the vine when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. When Paul wrote Romans the opposite was true – a minority of the nation believed and a majority failed to believe and stumbled at the Stone. 4) the land promise was unconditional/not of works or the law just as the promise of righteousness, therefore the means of inheritance of the former will be through spiritual Israel’s (the Church) work of moving national Israel to jealousy and therefore repentance. The latter can only be inherited individually through faith in Messiah; the land can only be inherited by faith nationally in Messiah – it is a national/physical promise not an individual promise. Both are of faith but one is individual the latter is national, the two will progress side by side until the end when the deliver comes out of Zion and finally turns away ungodliness from Jacob. This is why I believe the Church and national Israel will go through the tribulation together culminating in the repentance of national Israel and the the first resurrection at the return of the Lord. The first resurrection consist of those that are dead in Christ and those that are alive in Him. The ones who are alive will be raptured or changed (transformed or resurrected) in the moment in the twinkling of an eye – the dead will rise first and meet those that were alive in the air as Christ returns to set up the Earthy Kingdom that rules with a rod of iron.
If anyone thinks the pretrib view is correct, they should Google “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy” and “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty.”
Could Jesus have become “Israel” at the Jordon River, thus all “Promises” pass through Him to us, via salvation?
We will reign with Him in His Kingdom, and carry all the Promises of the covenant forward!
The messiah was the representative of Israel (in his role as Israel’s king, this was a given – it’s why both the king and the nation are called God’s “son”). Same for the “servant” (in Isa 40-55 the servant is both corporate and individual in identity). I don’t think there’s a chronology to it; it’s intrinsic.
Hope I am saying that correctly ..That Jesus is Israel, we are His servants and His
Bride..so we are His heirs.