I wanted to share some thoughts on the most recent Partridge article I posted. Basically, I want to make sure you all caught some of his more important ideas, and to share some thoughts of my own with respect to those ideas.
First, Partridge lays out his thesis very clearly on the first page of the PDF:
“…[B]ecause UFO religions have their roots in the Theosophical tradition, the religious understanding of the extraterrestrial tended to be fundamentally indebted to the concept of the wise and benevolent ascended master. The aim of this article is to examine the technological angel’s foil. The central thesis is that, in their construction of the malevolent alien, UFO religionists and abductees turn not to Theosophy and Eastern religious traditions but to the myths and symbols of Christian demonology.”
I hope you caught his drift. In some early posts on this blog (those detailing “Balducci’s Conundrum”), I pointed out Partridge’s work on identifying clear parallels between the beliefs of those who embrace presumed ETs as “ascended masters” with theosophical/ Eastern occult/religious traditions. Partridge echoes that same conclusion here: those whose view of ET as some sort of transcendent enlightened being tend to be intellectually rooted in theosophical thinking. But here’s the follow-up: that means these same people do NOT have the teachings of Christianity as their guiding intellectual framework. By putting forth the thesis that those who view ETs as malevolent are intellectually rooted in Christian theological conceptions of demons, he is arguing that theology is at the heart of the disagreement over what or who ET is. The transcendent ET vs. the malevolent ET is an intellectual parallel to Theosophy/Eastern religious ideas vs. Christianity. Partridge aims to prove this by arguing that there is no “malevolent being” tradition in Theosophy / Eastern religion that provides an explanation for how that view arose-and so the only viable explanation is the Christian notion of the demonic. This raises two questions: (1) Has anyone else out there, aside from those whose worldview framework is based on Christianity, been calling the ETs of pop culture and “fringe” experience demons? Does anyone else besides Christians think this way about ETs? Partridge would seem to be saying “No.” (2) “Without Christianity, would anyone have viewed ET as evil?” If there had been no Christian framework in operation to comment on the experiences of those who say they have been abducted, for example, would anyone have viewed ET as malevolent?
Bottom line: is the “malevolent ET” view uniquely Christian? What think ye? How would you rebut Partridge’s thesis (or affirm it)?
The term ET means, for all practical purposes, unidentified entities that seem to be manifesting in multi-dimensional fashions with clearly deceptive tendencies. J. Vallee and other non-Christian researchers see these beings as demon-like.
Moreover, encounters with these types are historical and cross-cultural. The middle-eastern Jin come to mind as just one non Christian example.
ET should properly mean biologicals who inhabit interstellar solar systems, but this formal definition as been overshadowed by the very terrestrial phenomena which crosses cultural and historical lines and has more in common with the demonic.
The spin that these entities are from space is largely seeing this historical demonic phenomena via the distorted lens of Science Fiction, a literary form that increasingly shapes the modern perception since the mid 1800’s.
Refer to my article:
A Scientific Fiction: A Distorted View of the UFO Phenomena
@DryWind: Thanks for this; I will have a look at the link.
@DryWind: The third paragraph is what I always say during my own presentations at various UFO venues. I think it is coherent and needs to be disproved by other views, but it is rarely addressed. That said, biblical theology (namely, a dualistic worldview distinction of lone uncreated Creator vs. everything else being made of something; and this is NOT the same as the dualism that deals with good vs. evil) does in fact allow “other dimensional” beings to exist that are not demonic. This is also rarely addressed, especially from the Christian side, which regularly fails to think through its important (vital, really) dualistic view of creation.
MSH –
I do agree we need to keep an open mind on this phenomena. I would not discount the possibility of pure spacefaring biologicals. That being said, I personally see more evidence than not that the current phenomena is highly dimensional and theatrical in nature – the M.O. of the fallen realm:
Some examples
– UFOs are seen to eject or dissovle into Molten Metal (suggesting terrestrial elements are used and discarded in forming the craft manifestation).
-UFOs frequently alter shapes in mid-flight
-UFOs historically change their appearance to match the technological expectations of the time
-UFOs can have a close resemblance to science fiction craft
-UFO shapes often mimic the sacred symbolic shapes seen in early Christian art (leading some to erroneously assume there are UFOs in sacred art)
@DryWind: agreed – this is where the evidence leads right now.
In relation to others, outside the Christian Community, calling ET’s “demons”, Jaque Vilee is about as a-religious as you find. AND as knowledgeable as any. He’s clearly determined that the entities that we refer to as “ET” are EXTRA-DIMENSIONAL, or ED’s.
But, I see this investigation & exploration as immensely pertinent, & timely, in leu of the direction Scientific research is headed.
Also, Scripture clearly depicts a world, (towards the end of it’s human/Helel rein), that is completely polarized between Christian and anti-christian belief systems. So, it is not inconceivable that this issue is simply an outcropping of that polarization.
Also, close examination of Revelation and Daniel reveals entities being “honored”,[Dan.11:38{mauzzim}] and “released”, which CLEARLY are malevolent,[Rev.9:2-6 & 14-18]; while, at the same time, entities which are CLEARLY extra-dimensional,[ED’s], but NOT malevolent are present,[Rev.1:20; 7:13-14], thus establishing BOTH factors as existent in both dimensional realities, (and THAT is totally aside from Helel, the one time “vice-regent”, who has “fallen” into deluded evil).
Also, supporting your point that “UFO’s…often mimic sacred symbolic shapes…”, Rev.16:13 depicts “spirits”, {essentially ED’s}, going fort to do “miracles”,{‘signs & wonders’?}, to “gather” the “..kings of the earth, & of the whole World…”. Clearly, Rev.19:19-21 reveal that these “spirits” deceived those kings. Misrepresentation is demonic SOP.
This thread began with a rhetorical question: “are Christians the only ones who consider ET evil?”
Then MSH says: “biblical theology (namely, a dualistic worldview distinction of lone uncreated Creator vs. everything else being made of something; and this is NOT the same as the dualism that deals with good vs. evil) does in fact allow “other dimensional” beings to exist that are not demonic.”
So then, should the question be reposed to ask: “are Christians the only ones who consider some ETs to be evil?”
Also above, “Christian” states references from the Revelation to John that may be interpreted to describe benevolent ETs.
I would point to many other biblical references that point to benevolent ET’s as angels who are obedient to The Uncreated Creator.
Can we clarify that Christians may be the only ones who consider some ETs to be evil?…some to be obedient? ( I use the word obedient thanks to the idea that only the UnCreated Creator is good, and that goodness in the universe is only the result of He or His created servants carrying out His Instruction or His Word or His Will (Is there an English word that captures all three of these?)
As for biological or extra-dimensional- aren’t we both? Couldn’t they also be?
Embodied we are “this dimensional”, but I know it’s more complicated than that.
If you want to pursue the inter-dimensional view, then you should dump the term “ET” because it confuses not only that view but many related issues. It is of no value to use a term that moderns clearly and deliberately use for “interplanetary” or “galactic” beings. That isn’t what we’re talking about, nor is it what the Bible was talking about. The Bible was written by pre-moderns with pre-modern cosmology, so all this talk about angels being ETs (that specific term) is anachronistic and foists a modern cosmology onto ancient minds. In short, it’s a flawed hermeneutic.
Dr. Heiser, you sir – are the angelologist in the room. That is for sure.
That said, and I have listened extensively to MSH lessons about context of our ancient forebears’ limitations… Nevertheless, you touched on my conundrum with your “I know it’s more complicated than that” comment above. This was in response to my “aren’t we both?” I assume. You state: embodied we are “this dimensional”. Yes, I agree- but only with respect to our bodies, our “containers” or “earthen vessels”. The Apostle Paul refers to them as our “treasure”… But then goes on to stress- “that the surpassing power of greatness might be of God and not of ourselves” tell me Dr. Heiser, since we call upon Jesus as the author and finisher, and hail from these “this dimensional” vessels, how does God interface with us so as to surpass within us if we do not also possess personal portable built-in mini star gates for Him to step in and do the “surpassing”?
And if our very own personal uncreated Creator YHWH created us (to be a little lower than angels) and formed us from the ground (so that we would be firmly founded in “this dimension”) might we have the dual nature of being earthlings on the one hand and the other hand- the nature of being a little lower…the nature of being “imagers”. Isn’t our fallen-ness derived precisely from our having lost touch with that component? Aren’t we just meatheads (carnal minded materialists) without this duality? Strictly speaking, the only way for us to be just “this dimensional” is for humans to be fallen meatheads.
Then there are the CE5 Humans who’ve been coached by “shining ones” to turn on their little stargates, invited non-YHWH compliant interdimensionals to inhabit their containers, and expressed their fallen-ness by supping with these third parties. These CE5 Humans are your “Colonel” types who willingly lend their “treasure in earthen vessels” to multi-dimensional entities to accomplish purposes that are conspiratorial against Our Lord. It is these humans who are lost for certain, that you are sounding a trump about here on your blog and who you are opposed to.
Why then, having accepted the dual capabilities of these CE5 humans, do Christians not embrace their own dual capabilities?…and allow YHWH to fulfill the counter strike capabilities in the children of light? I submit that the recruitment of Christians to perform this task is a much more subtle transformation than I am suggesting here and that perhaps you were right, “it’s more complicated than that”.
I will dump the ET term and adopt back my previously non-annoying term of Non-Human-Intelligence or NHI and that term shall be construed to pack multi-dimensional conduit capabilities whether they be technically lower than angels or not.
Thanks,
It’s always best not to speak out of turn in Dr. Heiser’s class- especially not to contaminate pre-modern cosmology with flawed hermeneutics. Consider this the last time, and never to be repeated!
You asked: How does God interface with us so as to surpass within us if we do not also possess personal portable built-in mini star gates for Him to step in and do the “surpassing”?
I can’t make any sense of the question. All I can say is that it has nothing to do with 2 Corinthians 4. You’ve injected an “interface within us” element to the verse and then asked (I think) how the verse explains that.
For readers, here is the actual passage in 2 Cor 4
7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. (Wheaton: Standard Bible Society, 2001), 2 Co 4:7-12.
The “surpassing greatness” is, in context, the “life of Jesus” (vv. 10, 11) – i.e., that is what’s conceived of as in the jars of clay – the body. It’s a reference to the life giving Spirit who indwells believers in NT theology (the spirit who is, but also isn’t, Jesus). I don’t know what this has to do with star gates.