It shouldn’t surprise you that PaleoBabble doesn’t let political correctness get in the way of scholarship.
Some readers may recall the furor a few years ago caused by the announcement that someone had produced a hands down case that the Chinese really discovered America. The book that touted this idea was written by Gavin Menzies and published Harper Perennial in 2003 under the title, 1421: The Year China Discovered America. Turns out that the discovery was treated as paleobabble by Chinese historians, and for good reasons. A good example is the article-length review of Menzies’ book (“How Not to (Re)Write World History: Gavin Menzies and the Chinese Discovery of America“) published in the Journal of World History (Vol. 15, No. 2; Jun., 2004), pp. 229-242.
Here’s what Menzies said of the results of his study (as noted by the reviewer):
Menzies is contemptuous of professional historians who ignore evidence of Chinese influence in the Americas, “presumably because it contradicts the accepted wisdom on which not a few careers have been based” (p. 232). He explains that he has uncovered information that has eluded many eminent historians of China, even though it was right before their eyes, “only because I knew how to interpret the extraordi nary maps and charts that reveal the course and the extent of the voy ages of the great Chinese fleets between 1421 and 1423” (pp. n-12). A former submarine commander in the British Royal Navy, he has sailed in the wake of Christopher Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan, and James Cook, hence he recognizes that those mariners, who navigated with copies of Chinese maps in hand, were themselves merely sailing in the backwash of Zheng He’s fleets (pp. 9, 12).
And here’s a sample of the reviewer’s thoughts:
Menzies flouts the basic rules of both historical study and elementary logic. He misrepresents the scholarship of others, and he frequently fails to cite those from whom he borrows . . . Unfortunately, [his] reckless manner of dealing with evidence is typical of 1421, vitiating all its extraordinary claims: the voyages it describes never took place, Chinese information never reached Prince Henry and Columbus, and there is no evidence of the Ming fleets in newly discovered lands. The fundamental assumption of the book? that Zhu Di dispatched the Ming fleets because he had a “grand plan,” a vision of charting the world and creating a maritime empire spanning the oceans (pp. 19-43)?is simply asserted by Menzies without a shred of proof.
Sounds like fighting words! Enjoy.
As far as Menzies goes don’t throw the baby (the theory of recent Pre Columbian contacts between Asia and North America) out with the dirty water (the less than could be desired evidence of Menzies and some others).
There is a sufficient amount of evidence to conclusively prove this point from other
sources. From numerous sources there is mounting evidence that the Puebloan
people of the Pacific Southwest were not only Buddhist but Vajrayana (Tibetan)
Buddhists specifically. The Dalai Lama himself has taken a position on this. He
has written a letter of endorsement in the book “Navajo and Tibetan Sacred Wisdom: The Circle of the Spirit.”. Why would he write this endorsement if he didn’t
believe it himself. Google: “Were the Anasazi People Buddhists”–“Mandalas Manjis
Mantras Monuments”–“Hendon’s Geoglyphs” and “chinesediscoveramerica.com”
Language, religious, cultural including the most common wedding ceremony used by Native American point to this connection. Lastly, isn’t it the coincidence of
coincidences that it’s in this Exact area that the Buddhist Manji happened to appear
in North America by so called “evolutionary diffusionism” and is called the “whirling
logs” by the Navajo and the “whirlwind” by the Hopi. It should be noted that Manji
is a Sanskrit (ancient India) word that literally means “whirlwind”. If you believe this
is a coincidence you can believe anything.
Chess and the chessboard originated in either India or China. Either way the chessboard originated in Asia. Then why are enormous chessboard grid patterns
showing up in numerous locations across western North America? For the
answer to that question and to see some of these chessboard grid patterns-
Google: “The Homer H Dubs Priest Lake Idaho Chessboard Grid”. Can anyone
seriously claim that these complex ancient patterns are random?
Not only are huge Chessboard grid locations such as the Joseph Needham Chessboard Grid Collection and the John Fairbairn Ancient Alberta Go Board available for view here in North America but now Domino Tiles as well. According
to common wisdom the game of Dominoes was either invented in 12th Century China or brought up to modern standards then before it spread as a game to the rest of the world. Then why can ancient domino tiles be found in a very remote area of North America? Google Map, GoogleEarth or Bing Maps “Diamond Lake, Oregon”. When you arrive at the lake
scroll to the left (west). In just a short distance you will see the two domino tiles. One is a two (2) and the other is a five
(5) and they look just like they do today if you had just purchased a new set. The dots are in the traditional places.
These tiles were created by cutting down the trees on a large rectanglar grid with the exception of the appropriate dots where a circular grove or stand of trees was allowed to remain to represent those dots. There is absolutely no way anyone can claim this is random! Don’t let anyone bring up space aliens in this discussion. If this work was being done by space aliens then why are they continually copying and bringing to North America symbols and customs that originated in either India or China?
Phallic symbols originated in ancient Shamanism and were absorbed into the Vedic religions of India such as Hinduism,
Buddhism etc. These symbols show up not only in Asia but in North America as well. These North American symbols
seem to be concentrated in the Pacific Southwest area now or at one time occupied by the Anasazi, the Navajo and the
Hopi cultures. There are several in Arches National Park Utah. For an image of one of these at Arches google: “Buck
and Mabel’s: King Kong’s Dong”. Within a 100 yards of that rock is another rock formation that also hails back to Vedic India and that is a Persian Manticore. The Persian Manticore along with numerous other Persian, Greek, Roman and other Mediterranean cultural and architectural influences such as pillars and arches came into India when Chandragupta Maurya conquered India shortly after the death of Alexander the Great. Google: “The King Arches National Park” or “Persian Manticore North America” for images of the three exposed sides of this feature. For more images of Phallic Symbols in North America and Asia google: “Phallic Symbols North America”and “Ian Parker Hoodoos”. When you get to Ian Parker’s site scroll down to the third row for the “Hoodoo pool” image. In the middle of the picture in the background you will see a two toned Phallic symbol which in my opinion was deliberately done that way by the original artists to emphasize the two major components of the feature. Vedic symbols continue to be found throughout North, Central and South America. Its no mystery which country was the original source of Vedic symbolism. Its the same country where Buddhism originated. All that was to change over time as the center of Buddhist power and influence was to change from India to China but for the first 1200 years or so of Buddhism India was the country which was the source of most of the amazing symbols that we see in North America today.
How does North American academia get away with this? How can they continue
to ignore evidence that they might find difficult to respond to in light of their steadfast position that there were absolutely no foreign influences here in Pre
Columbian North America when there is compelling evidence readily available
that indicates otherwise? Is it permissible for them to simply not respond to the
ancient India wedding ceremony that is the most common wedding ceremony used by Native Americans today and who consider it their own ancient sacred
tradition? How can they explain that away? Or how do they deal with the fact
that the Sanskrit name Manji (swastika) is translated “Whirlwiind” which is exactly
the same meaning in the Hopi language and it’s known as “whirling” logs in the
Navajo language? Or how do they deal with the cultural comparisons done in the
scholarly work of Peter Gold and Jeannie Martinez Wells in which the cultures and religious beliefs of the Native Americans of the Pacific Southwest are contrasted with the culture and religious beliefs of Vajrayana (Tibetan) Buddhism?
There is a lot more compelling evidence but why don’t scholars who make ancient North America their area of speciality just respond to the three examples
Here is more for Mesoamerican scholars to ponder. Today I came across a website “Hopi Prophecy” while I was scrolling
through my “The Hopi People and Tibetan Buddhist Symbols” search. I was amazed to discover how the prophecies of these two cultures separated by thousands of miles dovetail. It was an interesting read. A part that jumped out at me is as follows: “When the iron eagle flies and horses run on wheels, the Tibetan people will be scattered over the earth and the dharma will go to the land of the red man.” Tibetan Prophecy “When the iron bird flies, the red robed people of the East who have lost their land will appear And The Two Brothers From Across The Great Ocean Will Be REUNITED”.
Once you have read the Hopi and Tibetan prophecies you will have the understanding that while we are debating today whether or not there were pre Columbian foreign cultural and religious influences here in North America the Tibetans and the Hopi are not participating in such a debate. Their individual respective historical past and future is recorded and established in their prophecies and these prophecies include and have included each others culture from times long
past. Remember that when the Hopi tribal elders met the Dalai Lama for the very first time in California several years ago they insisted on speaking to him in their own language to be translated if necessary. And what were the first words said
at this meeting and spoken by the leader of the Hopi delegation to the Dalai Lama? Welcome Home!
While people like you and I are debating whether ancient Buddhism ever reached pre Columbian North America you may notice that no such debate is going on in the Hopi or Tibetan Buddhist communities. This issue is resolved from their point of view. Displaced Tibetan families are being resettled in New Mexico and other parts of the Four Corners of the Pacific Southwest as welcome guests of the Hopi and Navajo tribes. The August 27th, 2013 edition of the Los Angeles Times ran an article “TIbetan leader pays a visit.” Lobsang Sangay, the Prime Minister of Tibet (In Exile), was here in Los Angeles to meet and greet fellow overseas Tibetans. On the 28th he left LA to fly to Salt Lake City. Because Salt Lake City is not one of the largest cities in our country you may be wondering why he was going there. The answer is that Utah is a major part of the Four Corners region of the United States that was the former home of the Anasazi (Puebloan) people and now home to their culural successors the Hopi and Navajo Native American tribes. There are now Tibetans and friends of Tibet that live in that region and have quite a bit in common with Tibet and and the Tibetan culture including Buddhism. Do you recall the first words spoken by the head of
the Hopi delegation in his own language upon meeting the Dalai Lama (head of Vajrayana “Tibetan” Buddhism) in California several years ago. It was “Welcome Home!” The Dalai Lama recognizing the symbolism of the greeting and also wanting his hosts to realize and appreciate the earlier contributions of his people replied “Yes, and where did you get your turquoise”. Everyone laughed knowing that the point had been made. This was a meeting with great cultural and religious significance because it was a fulfillment of not only Tibetan but also Hopi prophecy originally made centuries ago. For information on these prophecies google: “Hopi and Tibetan Prophecy” or “The Hopi People and Buddhist Symbols”. I believe you will be amazed as I was by the way that the prophecies of these two cultures separated by thousands of miles dovetail.
We can continue to debate over the symbols and customs found here in North America that point to pre Columbian
Vedic Buddhist connections but why aren’t we listening to what these two cultures are saying and doing now that makes it abundantly clear what they think about the issue themselves.
Walpi Village the ancestral home of the Hopi Nation has been continuously occupied since 900 CE. That’s approximately 400 years before the Anasazi
culture mysteriously left North America leaving behind numerous cultural
traits, symbols and monuments that bear an incredible similarity to not only
Buddhism but Vajrayana (Tibetan) Buddhism in particular.
In Walpi Village is ceremonial plaza where most of their religious rites are celebrated. In the middle of this plaza is “Snake Dancers Rock” or simply “Dancers Rock” around which these ceremonies the most common of which is
“The Hopi Snake Dance” take place. Snake Dancers Rock is an unusually shaped rock in a place where it stands out by itself because there are no other
“natural” rock formations like it around. However, there is at least one such rock
in Thailand which has been positively connected to ancient Buddhism. Google:
“Isan Home of Ancient Daravati Ruins” for the image of this rock and and an article describing it and it’s Buddhist history. However, there are scores of locations in the Four Corners area where this same shape can been found. Unlike “Dancers Rock” and the rock in Thailand these rocks are in wilderness
areas and are commonly thought to be the result of natural erosion. The best
wilderness example is in the Bisti Badlands which has an outstanding display
of curiously shaped often seemingly unsupported rock formations. Check it out
for yourself. Google: “Bisti Badland Images” and “Bent Hoodoo by Ned” for the
image of the Dancers Rock lookalike. For another image of a Dancers Rock clone google:”Cobra Rock Fisher Towers Moab Utah”. Also in the images of
the Bisti Badlands are numerous huge petrified wood logs that appear on raised
sandstone platforms. Would it surprise you that the Hopi venerate petrified wood
during the Snake Dance ceremony? Or would it surprise you that petrified wood
is venerated by Buddhists all around the world? Buddha was said to have died
under a sala tree. Any petrified wood therefore may be a sala tree and is therefore precious to Buddhists. These cultural and religious clues continue to
be discovered and announced. But there’s no better evidence than the “Hopi and Tibetan Prophecies”.
Walpi Village has been the ancestral home of the Hopi people since 900 CE. That’s 400 years before the Anasazi people, who shared numerous customs, beliefs and monuments with the Hopi, mysteriously left North America leaving
many such Vedic India traces behind. Walpi Village sits beautifully on the top of First Mesa. Google: “Walpi Village Ansel Adams” for an image. Centrally located in Walpi is their ceremonial plaza where their cultural and religious rituals are held. Prominently situated in this plaza is a rock formation that at first glance appears to be completely natural. However, this rock appears out of place because it is the only such rock in Walpi and is just outside the walls of the pueblos themselves. The rock is called “Snake Dancers’ Rock” or “Dancers’s Rock” because it plays such an important role in the bi-annual Hopi Snake Dance ceremony as well as numerous others. It could be said that this rock is a religious symbol because of its unusual shape, where its located and its role in ceremonies. But this unusual rock is not unique to Walpi. Thousands of miles away in Thailand a similarly shaped rock has been positively identified with an ancient Buddhist culture. Google: “Isan Home of Ancient Daravati Ruins” for more information on the rock there. However, Walpi Village isn’t even the only place this rock shape is found in the Four Corners region of the Pacific Southwest. Many rocks like this are found away from any recent human habitation. Google: “Bent Hoodoo by Ned” and go to the Images section for numerous examples in “The Bisti Badlands” home to an incredible number of uncommon rock formations. Some of these are unusually supported and seem to almost float in the air. Another example of the “Dancers’ Rock” shape can be seen by googling: “The Cobra Fisher Towers” near Moab Utah. Does this rock shape tie back to ancient Buddhism? I believe it does. Google: “Mushroom Rock State Park” for other examples of this shape in North America. The Chattra is one of the Eight Auspicious Symbols of Buddhism. Chattra
is an ancient India Sanskrit (Buddhist) word which literally interpreted means “mushroom”. The Chattra is the parasol
of protection of Buddhism. The Chattra is not used as much as it once was in past times but great examples of what
chattras looked like positioned on the top of ancient Buddhist stupas (temples) can be seen by googling: ” Gandhara Stupa Chattras”. There is so much more that needs to be learned and discovered.
Apparently western civilizations and especially North America protect our accounting of our historical past with the same resolve as we protect our national interests. If you or anyone else has a theory that differs from “our official version” of what happened in pre Columbian North America that has ANYTHING to do with migration/s from another continent or the diffusion of foreign influences here then by definition you are unscientific, fringe and should be ignored. It does not matter how much scientific evidence you can produce to support your point. By the predetermined rules of western academia you are out of bounds and should be disregarded. This doesn’t apply only to laymen and undergraduates. This applies to the department heads and administrators of the major colleges and universities of the western world but is especially true here.. It doesn’t matter that you have tenure. If you pursue a theory that includes any form of migration and diffusion elements your credibility becomes suspect. Dr. Stephen Lekson, a renown professor at the University of Colorado, has recently written an online essay on the recent history of the treatment of migration and diffusion theories by modern scholars titled “Diffusions and Histories/ The Southwest in the World”. Since when and why were boundaries placed on scientific research and the ability to at a minimum discuss alternative theories on the pre Columbia history of North America? I understand that there is a vast difference between proposed theories and conclusive proof. However, if its impossible to even consider some theories no matter the amount of evidence to support them based on either academic,cultural or national prohibitions one has to wonder “Is this really intended to protect or further knowledge of this subject or is it possibly an effort to suppress information about ancient advanced foreign civilizations and religions that we would just rather not acknowledge or accept”.
According to Stephen Lekson of the University of
Colorado theories of Pre
Columbian North America
that include elements of
migration or diffusion are
given little or no attention by
western scholars of the American Pacific Southwest.
His essay “Diffusions & Histories/ The Southwest in
the World” give a clear
understanding of how difficult it is to introduce new
evidence no matter how compelling to the group that
is tasked with researching
the ancient past of this area.
Speaking of Histories- There seems to be a significant disparity between the History of Western Civilization as taught in our colleges and universities and the
History of Science and Technology in Ancient Eastern Civilization Asa’s reported
by renown Sinologist Joseph Needham. He has written volumes of books on the
subject of ancient Chinese science and civilization subsequently condensed by
Robert Temple in his book, “The Genius of China”. Western scholars have not
refuted the research findings of Dr. Needham. But then few are paying it the attension it desires either. Both of these accounts (East and West) can not be correct. They do not dovetail. Instead they clash! Fortunately evidence ignored
does not disappear. While western scholars tout European sailors as being the
first true masters of the open sea there is a mountain of non controversial evidence that demonstrates that premise is simply not correct. The Oceanic Silk
Road route that connected China with Europe and Africa is one example. Or
what about the enormous size of Zheng He’s ships in the early 15th century along
with the various advanced technologies on board as compared to the same or the absence of the same on the ships used to sail to the Americas in the late 15th
and 16th centuries. What about the well documented Chinese deep oil and natural gas drilling in the 1st Century CE? How about the longest canal ever built
in human history (the Chinese Grand Canal) and the largest palace ever built?
Both of those construction projects were started BCE and completed hundreds
of years later. The continued representation of western world leadership in these
matters particularly those dealing with naval expertise and navigational superiority
is a misrepresentation of the facts
Sacred ceremonial masks have a significant role in the cultures and religions of the Native American tribes now residing in the Four Corners region. Just how important these masks are was just brought home by the sale of numbers of these masks in a auction house in Paris in spite of the requests from our government and the ferment requests from tribal spokespeople. For more information on this recent breaking news google: “Navajo Masks Paris Auction”. Sacred masks are not a common occurrence in the major religions of the world with one notable exception. The major religions originating in ancient Vedic India (Buddhism and Hinduism) also have a mask feature in them with striking similarities to the masks used in North America by Native Americans. Google: “Buddhist Masks” and “Native American Masks”. Are these common features shared by cultures separated by the Pacific Ocean another random coincidence or are they a part of a puzzle that indicates that at some time in Pre Columbian North America these masks and numerous other symbols, customs and influences were brought here from India by Buddhists? Google: “Buddhist Symbols Customs and Monuments in North America” for more information. Its always been of interest to me that the last major violent “encounter” the U.S. Army had ending the Indian Wars was precipitated by a spiritual awakening commonly known as the Ghost Dance. The nonviolent Ghost Dance which seemed to quickly united the Native American population with hope for a return to a better life greatly alarmed our leaders and was violently suppressed against the Lakota Sioux in 1890 at Wounded Knee South Dakota. The call of the Ghost Dance was a call to all Native Americans to return to the religion of their ancestors.. Would it be surprising if I told you that Tibetan (Vajrayana) Buddhists also have a religious dance that’s very important to them and has been for centuries. Would it further surprise you if I informed you the name of the Tibetan Buddhist dance is also called “The Ghost Dance” and it incorporates the use of the sacred masks so important on both sides of the Pacific Ocean.
Hamsa is the name of the Vedic Swan Goose ridden by Saraswathi Hindu goddess wife of Brahma (Varuna). Cracked Eggs are the Vedic
(Hindu) symbol of creation from ages past up to today.
Chaco Canyon New Mexico is the acknowledged
largest settlement of the now departed Anasazi culture. Practically next door to Chaco are the
BISTI BADLANDS. In the Bisti Badlands wilderness
are some of the most unusual rock formations on
earth. The common wisdom is that all these
formations are acts of erosion but I don’t believe that’s correct. Most scholars have to believe that
because they have no other option. I believe that
Vajrayana Buddhism was brought to N America by
Buddhist monks from Gandhara India in 458 CE.
That school of Buddhist had embraced many of the
Vedic symbols, customs and religious beliefs of
ancient India Hinduism that Buddha had rejected when he founded Buddhism from the Hindu culture
in the 6th century BCE. Vajrayana Buddhism became known in the 2nd or 3rd century CE and
is believed to have originated in Gandhara, India
the same place that Hwui Shan called home.
All this ties together in my opinion. Google: “Canadian Goose Bisti Badlands” for an image of what I suspect is an ancient carving of Hamsa in New Mexico. Google: ” Bisti Badlands Cracked
Eggs” for what I believe are Vedic Buddhist symbols
of creation. These are also in New Mexico in the
“backyard” of Chaco Canyon the largess Anasazi
settlement in pre Columbian N America. It sure adds greater credence to the question ” Were the
Anasazi People Buddhists?”
Where is the evidence for a Chinese voyage to N. America in 458?
The best explanation of Hwui Shan’s trip to Fu Sang that some of us theorize is actually now known as N America was given by Henriette
Mertz in 1953. Her book Pale Ink is a fascinating account of both
the first and last ancient Chinese accounts of trips made to Fu Sang.
Her entire book is available online. I recommend reading the entire
book if you’re interested in this topic. However, if you’re pressed for
time google: “Pale Ink Henriette Mertz Chapter II” or
BREAKING NEWS: The October 2014 edition of the Smithsonian Magazine has published an article-“Did Marco Polo Discover America”. This information picked up by the major news services is being printed in newspapers around the world. If proven true this may show that Marco Polo
arrived on the west coast of N America in the 13th century or 200 years before Columbus arrived on N America’s eastern coast. Dr. Benjamin Olshin
has written a book-“The Mysteries of the Marco Polo Maps” due out in November 2014. His years of research on this topic have focused on the
Rossi Map Collection and in particular the “Map with Ship” document which was donated to the Library of Congress in 1930 by Italian immigrant Marcian
Rossi. Dr. Olshin’s work reveals interesting details of the geography and cultures of the people and cultures of the people that Marco Polo encountered on his way to a place known as Fu Sang.
It’s interesting indeed because the descriptions of the places Polo passes and the people he encounters bear a remarkable similarity to the places and people encountered by Buddhist cleric Hwui Shan (800 years earlier) also on his way to a place known as Fu Sang. I believe there is a simple explanation
for these similarities. Although 800 years apart, these men were both traveling to the same place. They didn’t take a random bearing due east from China to Fu Sang. They both took a specific route that we know of today
as the North Pacific Gyre. The North Pacific Gyre is the name of the ocean
current that flows clockwise up the coast of China, past Korea, Japan and
Kamchatka and then flows easterly below the Bering Straits over to Alaska
then down the west coast of N America before it swings west to flow across the Pacific Ocean to China where it once again flows north up the coast
repeating the process. This powerful current flows close to the coasts of Asia
and N Ameica passing in close proximity to the countries and cultures that both Marco Polo and Hwui Shan describe in their individual expeditionary reports. Unfortunately, this story highlights the fact that the world is ready to
hear of European discovery adventures but not Asian discoveries. Marco Polo, his father and his uncle came to China from Italy overland. If this current evidence is proven true how do you suppose Marco Polo made it by
sea to N America? There are few options. It would appear that the most likely would be that he arrived in an Asian ship with an Asian crew using Asian navigational skills and Asian technology. So while we are applauding
Mr. Polo for his 13th century trip to N America let us also remember the Asian cultures and their technology which made his trip possible. And let us
also not forget Buddhist missionary cleric Hwui Shan who risked life and limb
coming to Fu Sang in the 5th century not for fame or wealth but simply because he wanted to make a positive impression in the lives of the native
people he would meet when he arrived there. Google: “Vajrayana Buddhism
in Pre Columbian North America”. “Were the Anasazi Buddhists?” and
“Dimensions of Dine (Navajo) and Buddhist Traditions”
The article doesn’t actually affirm that Marco Polo discovered America. It’s about a map that has some resemblance to Alaska:
“But as Olshin is first to admit, the authenticity of the ten maps and four texts is hardly settled. The ink remains untested, and a radiocarbon study of the parchment of one key map—the only one subjected to such analysis—dates the sheepskin vellum to the 15th or 16th century, a sign the map is at best a copy. Another quandary is that Polo himself wrote nothing of personal maps or of lands beyond Asia, though he did once boast: ‘I did not tell half of what I saw’.”
So, at this point, an interesting item whose authenticity is still being ascertained.
Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/did-marco-polo-discover-america-180952765/#4tuHuwvy2JbjHijg.99
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Dr. Heiser you are absolutely correct in your statement that
as of yet this discussion of Marco Polo and his purported trip and/or interest in this place called Fu Sang is an unconfirmed theory. It is true that there is a vast difference between the examination of evidence pertaining to a theory and the final confirmation and acknowledgement of that theory as being fact. My challenge is trying to understand why given all the written data on this theory that it has not already been confirmed or at a minimum much further along in the examination process given all the evidence available. Is it possible that in the course of human history that some cultures have attempted to “shape” or sometimes even suppress elements of the historical record that doesn’t fit the historical record that those cultures want to be known and accepted? Does our current history of the western world contain examples of this “shaping” and possible suppression of elements of the historical record?
From the 3rd century CE to the 14th century CE there appears
to have been a major conflict between science and religion in the western world. If it had not been for the Arabs who translated his work into Arabic nothing would be known today of the work of Claudius Ptolemy. It would be like he never existed. Now he is claimed as the father of modern western cartography. However, obviously the Catholic Church and western civilization had no use for his work from approximately the 3rd century until the 13th or 14th centuries when his works were translated back in Latin. Long
after the European “Age of Discovery” was in full swing look at what the Catholic Church did to Galileo Galilei in the 17th century. There can absolutely be no doubt as the power of the Catholic Church to shape the narrative of what they wanted or did not want to be taught. Another example is the
German Catholic priest, Waldseemueller, who in 1507 “composed” a map of the world which included the Pacific Ocean BEFORE Balboa saw it or Magellan sailed into it. How was that possible? Google: “Inconvenient Maps at the Library of Congress” That’s not the only map like that at the time.
It appears that some culture out there had previously done an excellent job of mapping the world and the west was more than willing to plagiarize their work. Who could that have been?
Frankly there are not a lot of possible choices but there is
one that stands out from the rest. Google: “Ancient Chinese Shipbuilding”, “Ancient Chinese Navigation” and “History of the Ancient Chinese Navy”. In the old days when information was not so easily available it was easier to shape the historical record. Now with incredible, vast amounts of data just a mouse click away it’s becoming harder and harder to “shape” the facts. Is our religious faith and our culture so weak that we can not face the truth and acknowledge that we have not been taught the whole truth and that our history has been molded to fit the “truth” that is convenient to our culture and western civilization? I am confident in my religious beliefs and I am proud of western civilization of which I belong. I don’t have to accept the doctrine of the west being the “First True Masters of the Sea” in order to maintain that pride and confidence. Furthermore, I don’t believe a careful examination of the facts support it. There
is far too much evidence that points the other direction.
Apparently, I’m not the only one who is seriously perplexed
that the facts on 13th to 17th century European map making doesn’t like up chronologically. Google: “Trager Mysterious Mapmakers” for a scholarly well referenced article on this subject. Although a small number of these “Inconvenient Maps” had surfaced in Europe prior to 1492, after the Spanish Inquisition began and the Jewish Catalan mapmakers work had been appropriated (stolen) within just a few years (1507) a German cleric, Waldseemuller, was crafting a map that gave information on the Pacific Ocean before this was known in Europe. The 16th century (particularly the first half) was witness to scores of these inconvenient maps being produced primarily in Germany using latitude and longitude lines and other technical details that weren’t known or accepted in Europe until centuries later. “Inconvenient Maps at the Library of Congress” Where are the honest scholars on this topic? This discrepancy has to have been noticed by more than just a few of us. The ancient Chinese were the only possible source for that information. Why is the western world so hesitant to acknowledge that. Zhang Heng Cartographer, Phei Hsiu Cartographer, Ancient Chinese Cartography and The Genius of China by Robert Temple
More information on Asian advanced mapping techniques prior to the “European Age of Discovery” continues to be revealed. Jia Dan was a famous Chinese official during the Tang Dynasty. He was also well known
as a geographer. He not only recorded a detailed description of the oceanic trip from China to the Persia Gulf in the 7th century he also described the
lighthouses that guided ships through what we know today as the Straits of Hormuz into the gulf. For a great book on this topic read “Mapping The Chinese and Islamic Worlds: Cross-Cultural Exchange in Pre-Modern Asia” by Professor Hyunhee. The Chinese Tian Xia circular map format which the west (The Library of Congress) is trying to date to 1592 bears a
resemblence to the oldest extant world maps dating to the 7th Century BCE.
Google: “The Ancient World Maps of Miletus, Ionia” and “The Dr Hendon Harris Jr. Map Collection” for images of this similar format. All of the Tian Xia
or Ch’onado (Korean) circular world maps highlight on a crude map 1) The Red Sea 2) The Arabian Peninsula and 3) The Persian Gulf. There was a time BCE and early CE when these locations had great significance to Chinese oceanic commerce and cultural exchanges. However, after 1433 CE when the Chinese Decree of Isolation had been issued by the Emperor, China no longer possessed an interest in these locations once very important
to Chinese trading and cultural concerns. The attempt to date these maps
to 1592 CE doesn’t make any sense other than to place them in a period After The European Age of Discovery Was Well Underway.
I believe that the knowledge of the true origin of just one specific scientific study provides the information necessary to know from which continent
N America was originally explored and mapped. That specific scientific
study is LONGITUDE. For hundreds of years we have been told by western interests that longitude originated in Europe. Although there have always been clues that this premise may not have been correct this premise has been almost universally accepted.
Ptolemy is the person who has been credited with the grid mapping and the other skills that made the knowledge and use of longitude possible. However, within less than 200 years after Ptolemy died in 170 CE western civilization turned it’s back on science and slipped into a 1100 year cultural and scientific morass that we know today as the Middle Ages. Fortunately for the world Ptolemy’s writings (not his maps) were preserved by Egyptians in Arabic until the early 15th century when once again they regained western interest and were translated back into Latin. It was only starting then that the west had access to anything that resembled longitude and complex compass calculations. And this western relearning process extended over several centuries.
The problem that this created during the time that Ptolemy’s works were
unknown (300-1400 CE) is that the knowledge of longitude and complex compass calculations was known in Asia and utilized for hundreds of years
in the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea. This information has recently
been explained in detail in “The Mysteries of the Marco Polo Maps” and
“Mapping The Chinese and Islamic Worlds” published in 2014 and 2012
respectively. The authors are both PhDs and have each written scholarly
well referenced books.
Although Ptolemy is connected with grid mapping and longitude he had an Asian contemporary who is rarely if ever mentioned in connection
with longitude. That compemporary is Zhang Heng from China. If you read
the 20 plus Wikipedia pages on Zhang Heng you will gain an insight into
the knowledge and advancement of scientific studies such as the improvement of Pi calculations so important in longitude by this polymath.
Zhang Heng. 78-139 CE
Claudius Ptolemy 90-170 CE
Pei Xiu. 224-271 CE
I can not remember reading ANYWHERE that Zhang Heng and Ptolemy were both alive during many of the same years in world history. They were.
Although there is no known evidence that connects these two men either directly or indirectly it is known that Zhang lived in Chang’ an China,
the Eastern terminus of the Oceanic Silk Road while Ptolemy lived in Alexandria, Egypt the Western terminus of the Oceanic Silk Road. If you
take the time to read and compare their individual Wikipedia pages you may
be utterly amazed as I was by the similarities of these two men in both their
scholarly as well as their personal interests. As I personally believe that the “Wise Men from the East” (astronomers) who travelled to Bethleham at the
beginning of the Common Era were Han Dynasty officials using the Oceanic
Silk Road in use for at least two hundred years, I therefore also believe that this route although long was not difficult to use. (The historic source of
Frankincense and Myrrh are Somalia and/or Yemen located on both sides
of the Red Sea (Silk Road) approach to Alexandria.). Therefore if there had
been direct but unrecorded contact between Zhang and Ptolemy either in
Egypt or in China it would not have been unbelievable just unconfirmed.
Dr. Stephan Lekson, University of Colorado, is a recognized anthropologist
and published author who believes that the ancient Anasazi (Puebloan)
people built their major settlements in N America north and south along what
we know today as the 108 Meridan West. That theory implies that the Anasazi possessed the knowledge of longitude and how to determine it.
How would that be possible? That would be possible if the Anasazi were
indeed Buddhists from China who came to N America early in the Common
Era bringing with them the Chinese knowledge of longitude developed by
Zhang Heng and Pei Xiu. The Chinese development of longitude and other advanced cartographic techniques would also explain the hundreds of years
of its pre Columbian use in the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean. It
would also explain how Marco Polo was familiar with longitude in the 13th
century as well as the scores of mysterious “Inconvenient Maps” found to this day In the Library of Congress as well as other museums and private collections around the world.
The problem is that apparently there are western entities that do not want this
information to be known or discussed. If you doubt this google “Longitude”
and check for yourself how many Asian scholars are mentioned or how many
references to Asia are mentioned there. And yet references to ancient Asian contributions to grid mapping, advanced time keeping, improvements in the
calculations of Pi as well as numerous extant documents on mapping, the
origin of the compass etc. although well known and referenced in numerous places are also conspicuous by their absence in so many other places. Why?
In my previous posting I stated that perhaps the knowledge of ancient Chinese mapping and surveying techniques could ultimately be the source of the information as to who actually discovered longitude and latitude and which culture was the first to explore and map ancient North America.
Recently I came across an article written by Zilan Wang of the Needham Research Institute, Cambridge, England that casts a great deal of light on these topics. His 12 page online article is “The Fundamental Cartographical Technology of Ancient China-Forward Intersection”. What was of particular interest to me in this article was on Page 5 Paragraph 3. That was the mention of the highest available mountain peaks
available within human sight of each other which was a key part of these ancient Chinese surveying/mapping techniques.
Henriette Mertz in her book Pale Ink described what she believed to be one of the “worldwide survey expedition trails” mapped by ancient Chinese mentioned in The Shan Hai Jing the oldest extant geography book in the world. Mertz
from her interpretation of the details given in the Shan Hai Jing believed that one particular expedition was in N America
running from a mountain peak near Casper Wyoming south to
Chinati Peak in Texas on the banks of the Rio Grand.
When she wrote her book Mertz knew nothing about this particular Chinese mapping/surveying technique that included
the use of towers (preferably mountain peaks) within visual
sight lines of each other. The Shan Hai Jing not only accurately describes the 12 mountain peaks and surrounding
countryside here in N America but also confirms that these peaks were approximately 300 li (100 Miles) apart. I know that distance allows for a visual sight line because I have personally stood on the top of Baldy Peak, Texas (the 11th site described in the SHJ) and clearly seen Guadalupe Peak, Texas to the north and Chinati Peak, Texas to the south (the 10th and 12th mountain peaks described by the ancient Chinese and identified by Henriette Mertz in her book).
I believe this article by Wang on these ancient Chinese mapping/surveying techniques is huge because it ties these advanced specific techniques to the ancient Chinese Shan Hai Jing journal that in its descriptions indirectly describes the use of these same techniques possibly in N America during the same time frame.
see the response to your addendum.
Chinese were using highly advanced triangulation mapping/ surveying techniques BCE.
Google: “The Fundamental Cartographicaal Technology of Ancient China–Forward Intersection” by Zilan Wang of the Needham Research Institute, Cambridge, England.
That’s nice – but quite different than saying “we know they used these triangulation methods to come to America.” The means to do X does not prove X was in fact done.
I believe I have been misquoted. Please let me know when or where I stated
“we know they used these triangulation methods to come to America”. What
I was attempting to say is that there appears to be several evidence threads
that possibly tie the ancient Shan Hai Jing Chinese journal survey and Forward Intersection surveying techniques to specific mountain peak locations in N America with extremely similar descriptions that fit this ancient Chinese surveying technique. We know these surveying techniques were contempory with the Shan Hai Jing. We know a particular survey was mentioned in Volume 4 of the SHJ that Henriette Mertz theorized was in
N America. That seems to me to be evidence that should be further explored by professionals who make ancient American history their field of
study. I am not qualified to prove this theory. I am merely pointing out evidence that I believe deserves further review by historians.
In addition to the above evidence I have previously written on this site regarding numerous examples of Buddhism in the Pacific Southwest.
I have also provided numerous examples of very large Geoglyphs similar
to the Nazca Lines in S America. Included in these Geoglyphs I’ve located
are huge grid patterns in N America. Google: “Hendon’s Geoglyphs” and
the “Joseph Needham Chessboard Grids”. Also google: “Ancient Buddha
Tree of Life Lotus Flower”. My hope is that someone with the interest in this
topic as well as the time and the financial resources will continue with the
research on this topic. If this topic is ever proved it will then have become
common wisdom. If that ever happens it will be because qualified scholars have discovered enough evidence and have had the courage to declare it so.
I hope there will be those scholars who will explore this theory in spite of the
cultural, religious opposition that will undoubtedly come.
I didn’t say you said that, but the implication is that the techniques you alluded to played some role in navigation. So I’d expect there to be some evidence they did (which would be pretty neat). Otherwise, raising a technology point without demonstrating its use isn’t valuable to drawing some conclusion.
Forward Intersection (triangularization) techniques have played a demonstrated role in ancient Chinese navigation.
The common denominator between the ancient Chinese mapping/surveying techniques known today as Forward Intersection and ancient Chinese Celestial Navigation is a complex mathematical skill known as “triangularization”
Google: “Triangulation Ancient Navigation” “Brief History of Chinese Navigation” “Ancient Chinese Celestial Navigation” and “Native American Celestial Navigation”.
I believe this information connecting forward intersection
principles with both ancient navigation and ancient surveying/mapping techniques in BCE China demonstrates the
use of triangularazation in ancient history to produce the needed answers in both of these scientific fields.
Although there is growing evidence to substantiate this theory western scholars continue to ignore it.
Interesting – did it solve the longitude problem? How? (Any explanation needs to be simple here; I’m not a math geek). Is there an article on this you know of?
Your question on longitude is the basic point that unlocks this entire riddle. In a previous posting on this site I have written that unlocking and proving the secret of the actual origin of longitude will likely change a great amount of the history we have been taught and which we continue to teach.
Western academics continue to teach that the discovery of longitude is a modern event. They will tell you that the knowledge to figure this out was far beyond the scope of ancient Asians even though the information to refute that is
abundant. Dr. Stephen Lekson, University of Colorado, has
written that the ancient Anasazi settlements in the U.S. appear to have been all exclusively built north and south on what we know today as the 108th Meridian West. That’s longitude folks the most difficult celestial calculation to make! The Anasazi showed up in N America and suddenly disappeared at the end of the 13th century. Where could they have obtained that knowledge?
Buddhist clerics lead by Hwui Shan (means very smart) from Gandahar, India wrote a report that they traveled to a country they and the Chinese for centuries had called Fu Sang. These Buddhist clerics like today’s Jesuit priests (Jesuits are required to have PhDs by defination) were brilliant men.
This brilliance was their stock and trade and enabled them to
help the people they encountered and eventually convert many of them to Buddhism. Going on the premise that “celestial navigation” (google it) was common knowledge in Asia they could have been the ones who taught it to Native Americans
(assuming that Fu Sang was actually N America) once they had arrived here. That would explain the many ancient celestial observatories found throughout the Pacific Southwest as well as the Anasazi’s apparent knowledge of longitude.
In “Wikipedia Celestial Navigation” at the bottom of page one: “Most navigators will use sights of three to five stars, if they’re available, since that will result in only one common intersection and minimize the chance of error. That premise is the basis for the most commonly used method of celestial navigation, and is referred to as the “Altitude-Intercept Method”.”
If these ancient Sun worshipers were so accurate in the building of their pyramids and other Sun temples that they
could construct tunnels in those temples along which shafts of Sunlight would only travel on either the winter or summer solstice then they had global positioning accuracy and knowledge down to a “gnat’s eyelash”. Therefore they then apparently had Altitude-Intercept Methodology to the highest degree possible.
Can you point to just one text (I don’t have time to look up more than one) that has the writer using longitude or some calculation method that produced longitude? What you have here doesn’t actually do that (that someone traveled to a place doesn’t establish the method used, for example).
I also doubt the native americans had to learn celestial navigation from outsiders, but that’s a different issue. The native americans of the SW weren’t seafaring people.
You asked for articles relating to this topic. Google:
“Dr. Stephen Lekson 108th Meridian West” and “The Chaco Meridian”
I have never met these men and as far as I know they do not support my overall theory. However, the supporters of the
Chaco Meridian thesis believe that the ancient Anasazi had the knowledge of longitude at a time that no one is believed to have known it. How and where could they have gotten this highly advanced knowledge?
OK – here’s something I can look up. Thanks!
Okay – found a NYT article on this. Very interesting. But sighting a straight line by the stars (and building objects along that line) doesn’t prove longitude, even if that line happens to be the 108 meridian. It means they used the stars to plot a line, not that they could use THAT celestial observation to find other lines of what we now call longitude. If they did this with a few more lines (and they ran in close parallel) that would seem to indicate a worked out system.
But I have another problem. Is celestial observation really capable of producing a longitude system in general? Heavenly objects wasn’t how longitude was worked out – the N to S lines on our globe (mapping them) was also about time keeping. I suppose (don’t know enough about astronomy here) that was doable at night (but Europeans struggled with that – and again, you need more than one line to have a system). But what about the day time?
I need more than one line for a system. But that (for me) doesn’t take away the cool factor for what Lekson has come up with in terms of the line.
For those interested in this “meridian” here’s a skeptical response:
I tend to think the ancients were clever enough to do this sort of thing. It doesn’t seem that following a line like this through some sort of celestial observation is beyond them. But again, that doesn’t feel like discovering longitude to me. You have to USE the information for navigation (not just building stuff on the ground) to have that. (And then you’d need to establish the journey couldn’t have been accomplished by some other means or that it wasn’t random).
I believe it would be safe to assume as many others already have that longitude and latitude lines can be traced back to
Ptolemy of Egypt and Zhang of China (contemporaries in the 2nd century) if not perhaps even earlier. Much has been written about both of these men’s fascination with grids and grid mapping. “The Book of Later Han hints that Zhang was the first to to make a mathematical grid reference stating that he ‘cast a network of coordinates about heaven and earth and reckoned on the basis of it'”. Google: “Zhang Heng: Chinese Inventor, Scientist, Scholar and Poet” Improving time keeping technology, so important in calculating longitude, was one of Zhang’s major interests.
Grids and grid mapping in recorded history initially appears to have been of interest to only Ptolemy (Egypt) and Zhang (China). However, all of Ptolemy’s work including grids and
grid mapping fell into disuse within 200 years or less of his death. However, in China the interest and use of grids went on for several hundreds of years after that. Google: “Map of the Tracks of Yu”.
If China then appears to be the ONLY culture with a continuing interest in grids why do enormous two tone chess board like grid features appear to this day in multiple locations throughout the western United States? Is the fact that they can only be seen from high altitude the reason they are not well known and discussed? Google: “Joseph Needham
North American Chess Board Grid Collection” and “Joseph de Guignes Coastal Oregon Grid Patterns”
No one claims that two toned rectangular grid patterns of alternating colors are random acts of nature.
For those of you who may be tempted to believe I am exaggerating about the size and scope of the potentially Asian grids located throughout the western United States I have three suggestions:
1) Use Google Earth and zoom in on the area immediately west and south of the City of Eugene, Oregon. This is the largest concentration of huge grids in N America of which I am aware.
2) Google: “John Fairbairn Ancient Go Board Alberta” Just to the south of Burnstick Lake, Alberta you will see the exact layout of an “ancient” (the modern board is now different) Go Board that is two miles wide by 2 miles long. Go is played on the lines and not the spaces bordered by the lines as we play chess or checkers
3) Google: “Homer H. Dubs Chess Board Grids South of Priest
Lake, Idaho” Just to the immediate south of Priest Lake, Idaho you will see the most definitive alternating color two
tone chess board of them all. It’s amazing to see.
Remember that these chess board like grids can only be seen from high altitude. Who in recorded and acknowledged American history prior to the Civil War had the technology to
create these features? Did I hear you say “No One”?
You asked for a map with longitude and latitude lines? I believe I have one of interest. Google: “The Werner Cordiform 1514” This map “Projected by “Ptolemy” from the Central Intelligence Agency Micro World Database” raises a lot of unanswered questions. Where did a German Catholic priest in 1514 get this information? This was just a few years after Balboa was the first European to have ever even seen the Pacific! Forget for a moment the detailed latitude and longitude cross grids on this world map how could any Europeans have been the originators of this detail of North,
Central, South America as well as the Pacific Ocean? And why
was this information a part of the Central Intelligence Agency Micro World Database?
Apparently there is a great deal of information on ancient world mapping technology that has been withheld from us.
The story we have been told of the superiority of early Western mapping and navigation technology doesn’t line up with the evidence that is now becoming available!
Google: “Inconvenient Maps at the Library of Congress” This
map is just one more Inconvenient Map. How can anyone explain around the evidence on this map and what we have been taught about the timeline of the “European Age of Discovery”?
I like your posts since they make me look things up that turn out to be interesting (as opposed to nonsense). Had not heard of this map. I searched for articles on the map and found several discussions. For example:
The odd thing is that in the first article, no mention of longitude is made, though it’s clear the map is well known among cartographic historians (see pp. 13-14). In the second, the cartographer notes (p. 8) of the Werner Cordiform “little praise was given it during the whole 16th century.” Werner Cordiform is discussed at length on pp. 12-13.
In short, you’ll need to explain why no one seems to regard this map and other cordiform maps as evincing a true longitude system (that didn’t, for example, end in a heart-shaped globe). Rather, it seems these maps are taken as historic indicators of ERRORS in understanding longitude, though they were serious attempts.
For a view of another Chattra (Buddhist Mushroom Rock) in North America
google: “Rock Formation Devil’s Lake Wisconsin” Images Section or
The Chattra is one of The Eight Auspicious Symbols of Buddhism. Other
such images in N America include “Snake Dancers Rock Walpi Village” and
“Bent Hoodoo by Ned”. For the same image in Thailand google: “Isan Home
of Ancient Dvaravati Ruins”. (Mushroom Rock State Park Kansas)
Is it possible to claim that this rock formation in the form of a Chattra on the
top of an almost polished flattened table top rock is the result of random
This is in addition to all the other Buddhist symbols like the Torana, the Manji
(Swastika), Phallic Symbols and all the other Vedic Buddhist customs and
features that we have already discussed. (Ancient Buddhist Symbols in North America)
Here’s my second attempt to get you a direct view of Balanced Rock Devil’s Lake Wisconsin which I believe is a Buddhist Chattra based on it’s design and location.
All of the world’s major religions have customs, behaviors
and beliefs that although still practiced today link back to the origins of each faith. Buddhism is no exception. From it’s beginning in India in the 5th century BC Buddhism and Buddhists have had a fondness for rock carving, stone statues, numerous stone features such as their stupas (temples) and for balancing rocks which is known today as “stone stacking”. If you check this activity out on the Internet you will see that “stone stacking” is still popular with many modern day Buddhists in Asia. Although the skill level of Buddhist rock carvers “stackers” has ebbed and flowed over the millenia the fact remains that this activity was and has been a favored activity of Buddhists. Another name for Buddhism is the Middle Way. The Middle Way emphasizes “Balance” Balance is the key factor in rock stacking and positioning “Balanced Rocks”. Today scholars will tell you the geographic range of ancient Buddhism. They will grudgingly concede that BC Buddhism was a major religion in Greece and the Middle East. They have to because there is so much evidence that proves it. However, no one to my knowledge is willing to concede the Meteora Monasteries origins to ancient Buddhists in Greece eventhough those monasteries look exactly like and are positioned on the tops of cliffs exactly like Buddhist monasteries found throughout Asia. That’s in addition to the undisputed knowledge of Buddhism in Greece for hundreds of years. What other culture had this fixation on rocks and rock balancing than
ancient Buddhists? I believe the best way to follow the tracks of ancient Buddhism around the ancient world is to follow the trail of these unusual Balancing Rocks and other unusual and amazing rock features. Although the common wisdom is that these are all acts of erosion that concept almost defies logic. In our heart of hearts we know these rocks have or once had a religious significance. That’s why some of these rocks have names like Devil’s Marbles, Australia, Balanced Rock Devil’s Lake, Wisconsin, Idol Rock Garden of the Gods Colorado, Idol Rock Brimham Rocks England and Krishna’s Butterball, India among others. I have never heard an explanation for the hillside masterpiece in Scotland called “The Sphere of Knockan Crag”. However, I will tell you that it sure looks a lot like “The Round Stupa at Sirkap” a detailed Buddhist stupa structure in formerly Buddhist India.
In my opinion there is a lot more about these Balanced Rocks
than the Western World really wants to know. But if you continue to believe that these balanced rocks are natural I believe I can show you how the ancient rock balancing experts gave their rock features better balance. Google: “Balanced Rock Tuba City”. When you get to the site go to the Images section. There you will see several balanced rocks that have tumbled over. On the bottom of at least one of the top rocks
you can see that the bottom of the rock has been carved out in order to make a joint into which a post like portion of the rock below can be entered greatly increasing the rock’s
survival time as well as it’s balance. So much for erosion
being a part of that process. For more information on this topic google: “Disqus Hendon Harris”
Dr. John Ruskamp has recently discovered what appears to be
ancient Shang Dynasty style Chinese characters carved into rocks in the North American Pacific Southwest. His research has been published in the London Daily Mail. Google: “John Ruskamp Daily Mail” or John Ruskamp Ancient China” for access to the article. His research appears to provide further evidence of even more Asian influences in Pre Columbian North America.
Naturally skeptic historians are refusing to accept his research and the conclusions he is making. However, the evidence he has discovered seems hard to refute.
For even more evidence of ancient Asian influences here google: “Hendon’s Geoglyphs” Those geoglyphs include “Hendon’s Horse”, “The Betty Meggers Asian Dancing Lady”
“The Gavin Menzies Antelope” and “The Edward Vining Stalking
Cougar” as well as the numerous color coded grid squares I’ve dedicated to Joseph Needham and others and the Black Water Lakes found throughout the western states and Canada like the
“Marjorie Elizabeth Weaver Asian Lady Lake” and “The Gang Deng Sea Horse Lake”. The evidence of early Asian influences here continues to mount but Eurocentric scholars continue in their adamant refusal to even consider the possibility. How can anyone explain away the enormous size and number of the alternating color coded grids surrounding Eugene, Oregon and
numerous other places such as the beautiful color coded grid system just south of Priest Lake, Utah?
Dr. Heiser, you recently asked me to produce a recorded reference to an independent Asian form of latitude and longitude. I’ve found one. Google: “Navigation of the North Pacific by Colonel Barclay Kennon”. This is a letter written in 1871 to Charles Leland author of “Fu Sang” Kennon bases his report on his experiences as the navigator of The United States North Pacific Surveying Expedition 1853-56. From the details of his report it appears that the main purpose of the survey was to travel the course of the North Pacific Gyre. The survey documented the countries and cultures along the northern part of the route traveling eastward which is never long out of sight of land. His report echoes the comments made in Hwui Shan’s and Marco Polo’s reports given centuries earlier describing the same countries and cultures on their way to a place they both described as Fu Sang. I am persuaded that Kennon’s survey voyage traveled the entire course of the North Pacific Gyre because as navigator he gives the exact bearings where the current veers west and heads toward Asia. The main part of his trip started in Japan and ended back in Japan where their ship, the James Fenimore Cooper, was “put to rest”.
In the body of his letter is this statement: “It is of some importance in this connection to observe, that when surveying the coast of Japan in 1854, I found the Japanese charts to be invariably very accurate; their latitudes, which came directly from observations of the heavenly bodies, being particularly so. Their longitudes, of course, did not agree with ours, for we were ignorant of their starting point or primary meridian. The relative bearings and distances of places one from the other, with the outlines of the coast, were singularly accurate.”
When I read Colonel Kennon’s account of Asian latitude and longitude Dr. Benjamin Olshin’s as well as Dr. Hyunhee Park’s recent numerous mentions of Asian latitude and longitude in their respective books “The Mysteries of the Marco Polo Maps” and “Mapping the Chinese and Islamic Worlds” centuries before the European Age of Discovery seems to give a serious clue as to the originating source of “The Inconvenient Maps in the Library of Congress.” Those are the highly detailed and advanced maps in libraries and private collections around the world that were clearly originated centuries before Europe became aware of this technical knowledge. The Waldseemuller Map for which the Library of Congress recently paid $10 million dollars is the most famous example of this type of “Inconvenient Map.” It clearly shows the Pacific Ocean years
BEFORE ANY EUROPEAN IS RECORDED TO HAVE KNOWN ANYTHING ABOUT IT. How would that be possible?
As I’ve noted before, if the Chinese knew longitude before the Europeans, that would be fascinating. But that knowledge doesn’t mean they discovered America. Those two ideas may be correlates, but they do not provide us with cause and effect. The knowledge required for such navigation doesn’t mean such navigation occurred. Do these maps of the Pacific include the California coast (I don’t have a visual)? How far into the Pacific are they? Let’s say the Chinese had this knowledge before the Europeans — What evidence did the Chinese leave behind so we would know they were in America? Again, knowing how to do something doesn’t mean you did it. That’s all I’m saying.
I will concede that I will probably never be able to find a Pre Columbian Captain’s Log detailing the use of longitude on an Asian voyage to North America. However, I don’t recall making a definitive statement that ancient Asian trips to N.
America were completed solely by their knowledge of longitude.
My purpose has been to present evidence that ancient Asian sailors were aware of the North Pacific Gyre and commonly used latitude and longitude before it’s use by Europeans. This is repeated frequently in the recent works of two scholars, Dr. Olshin and Dr. Park as well as in the writings of Colonel Barclay Kennon in the early 1870s.
Colonel Kennon goes much further however in not only having surveyed the entire North Pacific Gyre (1853-1856) from Japan and then all the way around back to Japan. He goes on to say how easy the trip was from Asia to N. America. He concludes that Asians had been using that route for hundreds of years if not much longer. (This man was the Navigator on a U. S. military intelligence survey expedition so I would assume he has more than normal credibility.)
Yes, There are very old maps that show the California coast. However, these detailed maps were drawn by German mapmakers BEFORE this information had been developed by any recorded European surveys. So the question arises “Who provided the survey information that the early European mapmakers used?
You ask for evidence the ancient Chinese left behind to prove
they were ever here. Although I have written much on this topic in earlier postings on this site here I will simply ask you to google: Hendon’s Geoglyphs Images”. There I believe you will find multiple images and written references to find such evidence.
I keep writing about ancient Chinese shipbuilding and navigational knowledge because the most commonly used argument against ancient Asian Trans Oceanic voyages is that
Asians did not have the knowledge, the technology, the equipment or the motivation to do it. That is simply not true. Previous and current ongoing research and the evidence that will continue to surface will further support the veracity of ancient and Pre Modern Asian advanced oceanic navigational abilities.
I searched for these glyphs. It wasn’t at all helpful. Not sure how to narrow things on the Google images page. Do you have a page where these are listed and described? Google images is too haphazard.
At any rate, one thing going through my mind will be how you distinguish a “Chinese” glyph from a Native American art glyph.
Google: “Hendon Harris China Christian Missionary Parents” for information on my family’s experiences in early 20th century China. I have located an excellent online article detailing how advanced Han Dynasty astronomy was
at the time of the appearance of The Star of Bethlehem. Google: “Seeing Stars in the Han Sky by David Pankenier”. This article explains how far ahead of the rest of the world astronomy was in China. If only one country
had seen and tracked this star it would have been China. If Chinese scholars
were in fact “The Wise Men of Bethlehem” they quite likely took the Oceanic
Silk Route on their way. This route would have taken them past Yemen and
Somalia at the mouth of the Red Sea. That area is the terminus of The Spice
Road home of two of the three gifts the Magi brought to Betlehem.
The above article as well as the article “Forward Intersection by Zilan Wang”
clearly illustrate that Chinese celestial and land mapping and surveying skills
during the Han Dynasty greatly exceeded that known by the rest of the world
for at least hundreds of years.
In the mid 19th century the U.S. military was curious about the workings and the exact bearings of what we know today as the North Pacific Gyre. They sent a U.S.naval vessel (the James Fenimore Cooper) from our east coast past Africa, India to Japan to navigate the North Pacific Gyre for the apparent purpose of learning much more than they previously knew about it’s flow.
The navigator for that expedition was a lieutenant when he made that trip from 1853-1856. He was a Colonel in 1871 when he wrote a letter now recorded for posterity describing this trip. Google: “Barlay Kennon-Navigating the North Pacific” for Internet access to this short but informative account of the trip.
He explains how incredibly easy this trip was to make from Asia to the Americas at any time in history. He talks of the
“conveyor belt” currents that carry everything in their flow on a circular clockwise perpetual pathway from Asia to the Americas and then back to Asia.
Interestingly he also describes the very same landmasses and
cultures that were previously described in the 5th century by Hwui Shan and in the 13th century by Marco Polo as those men sailed to a land to the east of China they both referred to
as Fu Sang.
Today the captains of the Spanish sea galleons transporting goods between Manila and Acapulco from 1565 to 1821 on their way to Seville, Spain are given credit for having discovered
this gyre. (Google: Routes of the Spanish Galleons Images) to see the only way the Spanish were allowed to sail to Asia via an order of the Pope.
Last November you asked how a person could tell the difference between a Chinese geoglyph and a geoglyph done by a Native American. My answer to that
question would be that geoglyphs resembling features of Chinese (Asian) legends, art (such as a Tang Dynasty horse), Asian games such as Dominos and Go and then Asian clothing styles showing up in N America would provide fairly solid evidence that this work was done by people with a strong Asian influence.
In this posting I won’t even go into all the stone carved Buddhist features such as the phallic symbols, arches (toranas) and mushroom rocks (chattras) that are found all over the Pacific Southwest in the Four Corners region that point to Asian origin.
The best way to see this collection of geoglyphs and others is to google: “Hendon’s Geoglyphs”.
1) A Chinese legend from the BC era tells of the 10th Sun Raven who attempted to swallow the Sun. The legend says his beak still glows. Google: “The Beak of the 10th Sun Raven Still Glows” for that geoglyph.
2) Art styles and known Chinese saddle equipment from that time period would provide further proof. Google: Hendon’s Horse Images” for a Tang Dynasty Horse
3) A geoglyph 2 miles by 2 miles in the identical form of an ancient Chinese Go board would give the sense that the creators of that geoglyph game board were familiar with this Asian game. “John Fairbairn Ancient Go Board”
4) Dominos was invented in either China or India depending on who’s telling the story. Find this on Hendon’s Geoglyphs site.
5) How about a (royal) woman wearing a Japanese kimono in a slighly bowed stance standing in front of someone in a prostrate position? Here both the clothing style and the bowing custom seems to demonstrate Asian influences if not Asian origin. Google: “Marjorie Elizabeth Weaver- Asian Lady Lake”
Early Chinese grid mapping techniques are very well known and acknowledged.
Google: “The Joseph Needham Geoglyph Grid Map Collection” for images of these huge ancient grids found even to this day throughout the western United States and Canada.
To me the evidence is clear. Someone was obviously here doing these amazingly
huge art projects. Just because this is not accepted as common knowledge does
not mean that it never occurred. (Who has the audacity to claim that huge two
toned matching grids in exact shapes over large areas are a random act of nature?) Given the fact that many of these geoglyphs have a clear Asian connection it seems obvious to me who it was that did the work.
The point is that with these sorts of shapes the eye sees what the brain is predisposing it to see. Additionally, scribal hands are never all the same. I’ve looked at a number of these, and many of them look like glyphs I’ve seen elsewhere that aren’t Chinese. Phallic symbols are hardly unique to China. Same for the other items (when drawing items from the natural world, any culture that knows such items from experience is bound to draw them in a similar way, since the shapes of the objects are consistent no matter what region they are found in). In other words, I don’t see points of *uniqueness* in all this that *can’t* be something else.
Dr. Heiser, At least you admit that some of the geoglyphs I have pointed out like the two toned matching grid patterns cannot be random and entirely explained away. That would defy logic and what we know about natural erosion. But these geoglyphs in N America do not stand alone in a vacuum. Written ancient Chinese records such as the Shan Hai Jing and the Liang Shu in conjunction with these geoglyphs, the Vedic Buddhist customs of the matriarchal Puebloan cultures living in the Four Corners area (The Land of Women) , the opinions of the Dalai Lama and numerous other supporting facts make the total denial of Asiactic pre Columbian influences here in North America an exercise worthy of an Olympic gyynastist.
Let’s just be honest. OUR CULTURE SIMPLY DOES NOT WANT THIS TO BE TRUE. However, at some point every scientist should
admit that there comes a time based on some undetermined amount of proof that a theory has been proven. Perhaps we are not there yet to everyone’s satisfaction with the amount of evidence currently available. But what amount of evidence will it take? Would a pre Columbian Tibetan Buddhist temple being discovered in the Four Corners area be enough? How about five Buddhist temples?
No fortress is as invincible as a closed mind. I believe there are a significant amount of American and western scholars that would deny this theory regardless of any amount of evidence. In my opinion Aryan and western religious supremacy plays a significant role in the refusal of many scholars to even considering this topic. And that’s not new! That has been going on for 500 plus years. Anyone who seriously reads and understands the facts on the nautical history of Asia from the 8th to the 15th century has read about the Asian use of latitude and longitude during that period in the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea. Dr. Hyunhee Park in her book “Mapping the Chinese and Islamic Worlds” and Dr. Benjamin Olshin in his recent book The Mysteries of the Marco Polo Maps” make numerous and repeated mention of the Asian use of latitude and longitude during that period.
We keep hearing from the Library of Congress and the Smithsonian about all these “Mysterious Maps” and the puzzle they present
historians in attempting to make the western version of nautical history and The Age of Exploration “Discovery” reconcile to what has
obviously actually taken place. Inaccuracies (lies) are always harder to reconcile with the truth than a truthful accounting
In the fifteen century the countries of southern western Europe were not interested in an “Age of Discovery.” The reason that Europe went to sea in a Mad Rush during that time was because there was a “Gold Rush” going on. That Gold Rush was which country could get to the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea first to capitalize on the extremely lucrative trade going on there for centuries and bring those many products back to Europe so they could be sold in Europe for enormous profit. Portugal won the initial race and got a papal degree giving them the easiest route to Asia for having won. What had once been the overland “Silk Road” route to that area had been cut off by the Ottoman Empire because of its estrangement with Christian Europe. THE ONLY WAY TO INDIA THEN WAS BY SEA! Therefore Ptolemy’s journals had to be dug out of the Arab archives where they have been in storage for over a thousand years and then attempts made to turn them back into actual maps because none of his actual maps had survived their Arab storage.
How can you know the veracity of what I have just stated? Read the books I have mentioned above and many others pertaining to that period and check out their sources. Yes, technology has made huge advances since the 15th century. That is true. But it is also
true that the basic drivers of human behavior have and will remain the same throughout human history. Making as much money as one possibly can is a primal human motivation for many in business and has been throughout history.
To seriously believe that the initial motivation of western Europe in rushing to the sea in the 15th century was because of the desire to Explore and to Discover New Worlds is naive in my opinion. Yes, after Portugal and Spain had established routes to the Indian Ocean and South China Sea this initial rush to India morphed into something else resembling the Age of Exploration but that
came later. But in the accounting of this Age of Exploration the west would have you believe that they were the first continent to have
done any of this. They will tell you we were the first to discover the North Pacific Gyre. That is nonsense. We know that Hwui Shan
in the 5th century took that route to Fu Sang (North America) which was also taken by whoever it was responsible for the Marco Polo maps because both authors described the same cultures and geographic features they encountered along the path of the North Pacific Gyre on their way to Fu Sang. The captains of the Spanish galleons sailing to Manila and Mexico and back ultimately identified
this route themselves centuries later and because they were western they have been given credit for the discovery by the west. However, U.S.Navigator Colonel Barclay Kennon also sailed thist same route from 1853 to 1856 on an official U.S. government mission to apparently trace the exact bearings of the North Pacific Gyre. He went into detail to explain how easy it was to travel to North America from Asia using this route. Renown China scholar Joseph Needham has reported that the Chinese have known of this current as the Wei Lu current for many centuries. Over recent centuries the most often heard argument against ancient Asian influences here in North America is that the ancient Chinese were too ignorant to figure out how to get here (North Pacific Gyre or not) while at the same time acknowledging that the South Sea Islanders who did not even have a written language were able to find their way from Pacific Island to Pacific Island with no difficulty by means of songs and oral navigational traditions passed down from fathers to sons. Interesting logic.
Dr. Heiser, Recently I have taken a fair amount of criticism from people who share my religious faith. I have received comments to the effect of : “When did you convert to Buddhism?” When I tell them I’ve been a believer since my youth, hold my faith
dearly and will be a Christian for the rest of my life, then I get the question “Why then are you working so hard to built up the credibility
of the significant achievements of other competing faiths such as Vedic Hinduism and Tibetan Buddhism assuming your theory is true?”
When I hear that from educated people I feel like I must not be hearing them properly. Since when did it become okay for Christians or any other freedom loving and truth seeking people to suppress historical evidence to assist the building of the reputation of their faith or their culture? When that door is opened even a little then the truth “goes out the door” and we become willing to accept lies and misinformation as actual fact for the preservation of “Our Bubble of Reality” which then doesn’t have to have any resemblance to the truth. It just becomes OUR STORY and “confound it” we’re sticking to it no matter what or how difficult it is to perpetuate the lie because under tight scrutiny the facts we are teaching will never reconcile or tie off with each other because they can’t–It’s simply not the truth!
We Americans often ridicule third world dictators who try to shape reality for the consumption of their citizens to buy “their company line.” Could it really be true that a significant amount of western people (Aryans) have such a superior attitude about our particular culture and a fear for our faith that they are willing to sacrifice attempts to discover and acknowledge the way historical events actually happened in order to protect our race and our faith? Does the end really justify the means?
How does this line up with the teachings of Christ? We are taught that Christ healed and delivered people from all cultures and walks of life. We are taught that in heaven “Believers from every tribe and nation will be there!”
Does any true believer believe that God wants all species to be exactly alike in every way? Assuming that a person believes in God, how then do they explain all the simply stunning tropical bird and fish species or the marvelous diversity evident in the human gene pool and cultures? How can we ever teach out faith principles to non believing people if they even suspect that we are willing to lie about historical events to promote our culture and traditions at the expense of their cultures’ accomplishments?
My mother said it so clearly to her 12 year old son: “Hendon, It takes a small man to have to stand on someone else’s shoulders in order to be tall.”
The White Horse Pagoda was built in Dunhuang, China in 368 CE. This pagoda was constructed to commemorate the arrival of Buddhism into China in 68 CE.
Type “White Horse Pagoda” into your favorite search engine for more information. The first temple in China was dedicated to a white horse that carried the Buddhist manuscripts from Afghanistan to China that the monks from Gandhara brought to
China for their original mission.
If a huge ancient Chinese styled white horse similar to the horse image portrayed at the original Buddhist temple in China were to be discovered in N America is it possible that this horse is also a Baima (white horse) representing the arrival of Buddhism into a new land?
Symbolism is often used in Buddhism. If such an image were to be found in N America perhaps the image would not so much about the horse as it would be about the arrival of Buddhism for the first time here.
Is it possible that this “White Horse” symbolism was not only used to highlight the arrival of Buddhism in ancient China but less than a hundred years later then also used to highlight the arrival of Buddhism in Fu Sang?
For an image of this horse: “Hendon’s Horse” or “The Harris Horse Image”
For additional information: “Tang Dynasty Horse Images” — “Mongolian Saddle Styles” & “Ferghana Horses in China”
Whether or not The Harris Horse image here is a “Baima”, I believe there can be little doubt that it is a Chinese horse given it’s numerous similarities to the ancient Chinese Tang Dynasty horse image made famous by Chinese artists centuries ago.
“The Milky Way Through Delicate Arch Torana” Use your favorite Internet Search Engine to see these images of the Milky Way in ways you may never have seen it before. A Torana is an ancient gateway temple arch. This religious symbol originated in ancient Vedic India. It was later incorporated into Vajrayana (Tibetan) Buddhist symbolism as well. Varuna was in ancient times the supreme Vedic god. Over the centuries his influence in Hinduism waned. “The Decline of Varuna–Part 6” In that process he was demoted to god of the night time sky. His mount in those nighttime travels was Makara (a mythological hybrid sea serpent). In present images of Makara on the Internet Makara often has a saddle on his back quite similar to the rock formation remaining on the top of Delicate Arch, Utah to this day. Could what we are told is actually the delicate portion of Delicate Arch be the head of the sea serpent “Makara” image instead of what experts have considered random erosion? I will say that if this was man made as a religious rock carved tribute to Varuna the rock carvers could not have chosen a better place than where Delicate Arch is located. Millions of people have hiked during daylight to this location to be totally amazed by its beauty. However, to really see what Delicate Arch attempts to portray I believe you have to see these night time images with
our galaxy in the background. That’s when it achieves the zenith of the spectacular feature it was perhaps created by ancient Buddhists to be.