Lynn Marzulli (L. A. Marzulli, but I knew him years ago as Lynn) just posted something accusing me of making “tired and pompous” and “false” claims about his fairy research in a “hit piece” here. What a bore. Whip out the persecution complex instead of making the effort to what I actually asked: be transparent. It’s an unfortunate, familiar story. What I note below now goes for his fairy / elongated skull / nephilim research wholesale.
Lynn is referencing this post on this blog of a few days ago.
Earth to Lynn and others to whom it may apply: I didn’t make any claims at all about Marzulli’s work, good or bad. I asked that he make the details of his research public to avoid being like others in fringe research. I asked that he do the right (ethical) thing in relation to his claims: give the public the name of the lab(s), the names of the scientists testing the specimen(s), the test results for peer review scrutiny, etc. That’s it — and it’s anything but unreasonable. In fact, it’s absolutely reasonable, and doing so would be a good testimony in contrast to many in fringe research who just won’t make any effort toward such transparency. So, Lynn, the only way you can “rebut” a request for transparency is to not comply — to avoid transparency. I’m hoping you don’t really want to do that. On the other hand, putting your research and test results out there for peer review could potentially mean that you’ll in fact prove your claims aren’t things like pseudoscience or more head wrapping. But the only way to establish that beyond any pale of suspicion (which is what lack of transparency produces) is to in fact do what I asked you to do — put it all out there for peer review. This is in fact the standard we all adhere to in other areas of life (as my post sought to illustrate).
Does this really sound unreasonable?
In short, Christians ought to do everything like this above board, and make every effort to follow good research protocol. So, if transparency and careful, honest research are now pompous, tired, and false, yep … that’s me. I’ll wear that like a badge. Yep, Heiser’s a “hit man” for transparency and honesty (thanks for the label; people will know where to come when they want to be told the truth, even if it’s irritating). I’m happy to be an honest stick in the mud. I always have, and always will, insist on transparency. I don’t care if the research is a fellow Christian like Lynn or someone who isn’t (e.g., Sitchin). The standard is the same. (Well, truth be told I care more when it’s a Christian for the sake of the gospel’s reputation).
I ask again: Does this really sound unreasonable?
It’s for this reason that I won’t be commenting any more on Lynn’s research (that is, engaging in tit for tat posting). He can say what he wants. But my request and the standard of transparency will always be the same. Instead of repeating it in a series of responses to what Lynn might write about me in the future, the standard will just live here. So let’s read clearly the first time. Anyone who cares about transparency and honesty — putting scientific research up for peer review — will be able to read this and the original post.
It’s not complicated, Lynn — do the right thing. We’ll all be thrilled (and perhaps fascinated) with that. We hope you’re right, but the only way to know isn’t your say-so …. it’s to have tried-and-peer-tested research behind you.
Addendum, Aug 9, 2016:
The point of wanting the “fairy” specimen tested under transparent peer review is to make sure it isn’t an example of this (anything look familiar?) X-rays don’t establish what material something is made of. Lots of material will show up on an X-ray. Sincere researchers have been duped before. I don’t want that to happen to Lynn or anyone else. If insisting on transparency with this sort of thing draws abuse for me, so be it. Let me go on record now as saying that I believe real scientific testing will show the specimen is not an unknown life form.
Mike
Having read the exchanges between yourself and L.A. Marzulli (and without commenting on the merits, or otherwise of your respective views), my one observation is that it saddens me that this is taking place in the “public” forum. I have no idea whether this has spilled over onto your Facebook pages, but it strikes me that the Christian “fringe” community does not need division between two high profile figures such as yourselves. None of us has all the answers.
Could you not have sought, initially to resolve, or at least discuss, this privately between yourselves via email or Skype rather than having a public spat?
I expressed a concern that transparency in data and method occur. I didn’t say he intended to never do that. I don’t have spats. When I’m criticized, I’ll respond, but I won’t be wasting time on any back and forth. It serves no good purpose.
Did you endorse his books before?
I’m not sure if Lynn has written any non-fiction — I just don’t keep up with / follow authors outside academia or peer review. It’s just a time issue. My time to read anything is very limited, so I have to restrict what I do almost exclusively to that sort of thing. I know he has written several novels. I read the first one and like it for the most part, but I don’t “endorse” fiction.
I agree that there is so much out there that is undeniably
hoax material – that it does help to corroborate findings with names when
possible. However, there are very good reasons why Christian (or other)
scientists do not want their names attached to various research projects – and
you’d have to be really naive to expect that professionals are willing to see
themselves professionally blacklisted simply by examining a piece of evidence
and making a scientific summation on the record. Also, I don’t think I
would jump to a sharp criticism of someone’s evidence (and their ministry) simply
because the professionals who examined the evidence are unwilling to have their
names released to the public. For example, I think there’s a big
difference between a veterinarian who examined an x-ray not wanting their name
released vs. someone on a conspiracy talkshow guest discussing “secret
information given to me by a 3-star general blah blah blah who’s name I can’t
say.” Mr. Heiser, I have read many of
your works and agree with much of your research and various points of view on
the presented research. Most of it is incredibly brilliant.
Unfortunately this situation with Marzulli/Shaw appears to be more of a
“shoot the messenger” reflex. These gentlemen do not appear to
be in this for the money. Their ministry products, as opposed to many
other Gen 6-related materials on the market, have always been reasonably priced
and their quest appears to be the searching out of truth vs. the bringing forth
of hoaxes to deceive the public. I am
certainly NOT stating that we give free passes to individuals with findings
that make certain “claims” to Christiandom. Shaw/Marzulli do appear to have a different
take on the supernatural (and how this all may play out in God’s plan) than
someone like yourself perhaps. But I do
believe that God purposely uses a lot of different kinds of people to bring in
just that – different kinds of people – to the Kingdom. The eye cannot
say to the hand that it is not needed. When we shoot a brother in the
foot – or in this case – the formaldehyde jar – I think we give
the enemy JUST what he wants – in my humble
opinion. If you were my kids, I’d tell you both to play nice and get busy with your chores 🙂
I’m not shooting a messenger. I’m expressing my concern that transparency isn’t a priority. And my experience in academia doesn’t fit with the blacklisting idea. if anything, if this is a new life form, the bigger concern would be a scientist taking undeserved credit, not blacklisting.
Dr Heiser
I posted a comment to this blog about 12 hours ago. I see from my Disqus account that it is still pending; does that mean it is still awaiting moderation or have you chosen not to publish it?
I believe the question I asked was valid and I would appreciate your response.
It just means I didn’t get to it yet. I don’t look at the comments every day.
Good on you for taking the high road.
After Rabbit-Failing on ‘degrees’ and ‘universities’ I, prophetically, rounded up the usual suspects.
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Ummmm… Pass.
I seem to have spent the last year, or so, reading and listening to some guy that has this stuff pretty well bracketed.
It has, quite honestly, been more fun your way. Instead of getting creeped-out; I just get the giggles.
Thanks for playing it straight. It’s inspirational. The things I didn’t say…
(I may have cook one of those autosig deals.
“Shaming the shameless is a fool’s errand.”)
Best.
The line about waiting for the Lord, not the antichrist, is an appropriate reminder — thanks for that.
The line about waiting for the Lord, not the antichrist, is an appropriate reminder — thanks for that.
I was never asked to speak at Colorado. I also never asked to speak. Tom Horn just wanted me to come. It’s that simple — ask Tom.
I lose no sleep over speaking at such conferences, despite my fondness for Christian Middle Earth. I speak at scholarly conferences where Marzulli wouldn’t be allowed because he has no real academic credentials (granted, I don’t think academic conferences should exclude for that reason, but they do — you have to be at least in a *real* doctoral program, and then your first submission is vetted by a panel before it’s approved). I love the “Middle Earth” folks and would be happy to serve and contribute (99% of academic simply feel such events are beneath them — I disagree with that).
Frankly, people at Middle Earth conferences are smart enough to know the presenters who are data-driven and those who sensationalize. They may enjoy both, but they know which is which.
I was never asked to speak at Colorado. I also never asked to speak. Tom Horn just wanted me to come. It’s that simple — ask Tom.
I lose no sleep over speaking at such conferences, despite my fondness for Christian Middle Earth. I speak at scholarly conferences where Marzulli wouldn’t be allowed because he has no real academic credentials (granted, I don’t think academic conferences should exclude for that reason, but they do — you have to be at least in a *real* doctoral program, and then your first submission is vetted by a panel before it’s approved). I love the “Middle Earth” folks and would be happy to serve and contribute (99% of academic simply feel such events are beneath them — I disagree with that).
Frankly, people at Middle Earth conferences are smart enough to know the presenters who are data-driven and those who sensationalize. They may enjoy both, but they know which is which.
I’m not criticizing the documentary. I’m asking for transparency in the presentation of the testing.
You’re misunderstanding what I want to see.
I’m not criticizing the documentary. I’m asking for transparency in the presentation of the testing.
You’re misunderstanding what I want to see.
what’s the lab? really, I’ll check into it.
Found my Watchers 10 DVD and rewatched it.
Dr. Heiser, I don’t understand this. Marzulli answered your question on his blog. The only lab that was willing to allow their name to be openly associated with his book and film was Lakehead University of Thunder Bay, Canada. I also just reviewed the “cup of joe” blog and the guy clearly did not watch any of the documentaries and must be going off of some blog post from Brien Foerster or maybe there was some sparse “Ancient Aliens” coverage as he was asking for questions and making assertions that were already handled in the documentary. Why does this alleged scientist get a pass for lousy homework and Marzulli is criticized (I’m sure Carl Feagans, the author is a fine scholar, but certainly not in this case, not for those offering evidences for views outside of mainstream science). He alleges that there was no method obtained for the skull volumes, yet we watched an archeologist perform the test in a previous watchers documentary. He alleges that nothing was said about the method for obtaining the Baby hair from the Peruvian baby skull. Again, in a previous watchers, we watched the method, then in Watchers 10 Marzulli interviewed the forensic investigator who oversaw the unwrapping of the skull who said it went perfectly. Feagans alleges that method was not detailed for obtaining the skull samples. Actually, the camera was there as Marzulli and archaeologist Mondo Gonzales extracted the samples.
Regarding the possibility of contamination? They took several different samples from the skull drilling under the shellac. I think they were able to eliminate the possibility with multiple samples, but some contamination was found in a tooth that was extracted. Steve Fratpietro of Lakehead University was going over the results with Marzulli and said the tooth showed more than one sequence which he suggested may have been because the tooth was glued. But, and I could be wrong, I got the impression (an impression from a layman viewing a somewhat technical discussion) that there was consistency from multiple samples besides the tooth and the mandible which it turns out did not belong to the original skull (common practice in museums that cobble togehter skeletons so they’ll have a whole set). Besides the DNA, they also discussed the odd shape, size, and positioning of the Foremen Magnum.
On finding contamination, Marzulli puts this in his documentary, he does this. he doesn’t just spend time on what works with the view he’s putting forward, he discusses the pitfalls, in other Watchers he goes over fraudulent evidences on various topics. He is certainly concerned to have a balanced assessment of quality evidence.
I’m sure you’d fault him for his assocdiation with Brien Foerster and his discussion of the Peruvian megaliths. I saw Chris White’s “debunking Ancient Aliens” with you and I found it compelling, and I don’t find the megaliths as evidence of ancient watcher technology as compelling as presented in the watchers series.* Nevertheless, I still find the Peruvian skull items more compelling. I don’t buy the craniosynostosis, explanation of the missing sutures given that a google image search revealed that that condition yields skulls all over the map and not resembling the the relatively uniform peruvian skulls. And there are all the other anomalies mentioned. As for the headbinding view, Marzulli covered matters that he says headbinding is not supposed to effect, such as the anomalous magnum foremen and skull volume. Foerster may have some bad ideas, but he was crucial for much of the access to the skulls.
*That’s not to say that I don’t think the megalithic structures aren’t evidence of Nephilim activity, given that it shows a world wide activity similar to the tower of Babel and the pyramid phenomenon. What I’m saying is that it isn’t clear that we need “alien” technology to explain this, but merely demonic purpose even if all the engineering really is just on human terms. After all, the “Nephilim” mounds here in Ohio are just heaps of dirt, yet Marzulli blew my mind away in a PP&S newsletter pointing out that the snake mound which appears to be swallowing an egg really fits with a fallen angel viewpoint that wanted to destroy the foretold seed of the woman.
who did the testing — where are the results? (That’s what I’d like to see, along with peer review).
Is it possible for the two of you to call a truce and maybe get together so you can answer some of the questions yourself? It doesn’t make sense for 2 Christians ; who happen to enjoy the same things as both you and
Lynn Marzulli do ; to be at odds with each other. Both of you are respected 1st because you are both Christians and it sure wouldn’t hurt for you two to work together so these thing are as beyond reproach as they can be.
I’m not at war with anyone. I haven’t even given Lynn or this issue a thought since Lynn admitted this was a hoax. All I’m asking for is accountable research. That isn’t unreasonable. I’m hoping Lynn doesn’t get duped again and finds something real.
Dr. Heiser, I think the easiest thing would be for you to read the book “Nephilim Hybrids,” I will buy it for you and if your questions aren’t answered, you can give LA Marzulli the proper and fully informed negative review of his book. And you can review it as a peer!
I’d do that but my aim isn’t to shoot at Lynn. Any review I’d write would be perceived that way.
http://skywatchtv.com/videos/skywatchtv-web-exclusive-l-marzulli-breaking-news-demon-fairy/ … Yes, this is a hoax!
Gandalf strikes again. 🙂
I don’t think Dr. Heiser had a “disagreement” with Marzulli.. It seems he was asking for transparency only.
Correct.