May the Character of God be glorified !—-Even though I am certainly with you in acting LOVING towards the un-purified in their hearts, we should discuss this one. Because we are talking about motives when we talk about mans condition, not outward works they do . I mean, I remember as a non-Christian, before I was in Christ, wanting to passionately do “good” things, but was my motive that I didn’t want to harm others, which is the sum of all goodness? NO a Big NO. I just wanted to make sure I, I, I, I, period, didn’t go to hell, that is all I was really worried about. Frankly, I think this is naïve, and it really concerns me because ,to young believers, it opens them up to being greatly deceived. This would make them naive. The scripture says“Every word they speak is false?”— Also,about the premise of this issue to start ,this ties in with the question about the tribal people who had never had a chance to hear the gospel. The Romans passage you cited, and this one in Acts about Cornelius ,—Correct me if I am wrong, but is this not talking about people who are Saved people, just like all the other people never hearing about Christ , people in the OT ,and tribal people, but who just have not been given the FULLNESS of the Kingdom news ?? I don’t look at those who kept the law , without having it, as un-saved people, or Cornelius as one who was not saved already. And also, I don’t know any one who thinks God is “Angry” at people who are just “brushing their teeth” That image you portrayed of people thinking that way, seems very unrealistic. The whole topic about the love of God is such that it shows us that God comes to people who are Totally at odds with God, JUST by their Motives. And that’s just THE START of their enmity. You would really have to give some more discussion on this one. Cant see it at all. God is light, and the lights are on all motives, ALWAYS.— Now if your heart in this is about how we TREAT others ,in showing them the grace of God, I stand with you in that love.—-Other than that , great teachings again . So exciting. Learning things, left and right.
MSH
on May 3, 2015 at 4:56 pm
Peter’s assessment is inspired. If God wanted to add qualifiers they’d be there. God doesn’t get more angry with unbelievers when they live the way he wants people to live — but they also don’t gain brownie points for salvation, as that isn’t based on performance. When the unsaved guy chooses to not cheat on his wife God doesn’t get more angry with him. God says: “Good choice — that’s how you ought to behave. I’m glad you didn’t do something destructive to self and someone else.”
That’s my position in a nutshell.
Chris Walker
on May 3, 2015 at 12:24 pm
Another excellent episode!
Thanks!
Chris Yeager
on May 3, 2015 at 4:20 pm
I love the new format and this on the top of my list to listen to as soon as I see it released! It is awesome to see the Divine Council referenced or alluded to in so many passages! I’m starting to see it myself almost every time I read! Thanks for you diligence and level headed commentary each week!
MSH
on May 3, 2015 at 5:00 pm
You’re welcome — when you’re trying to share the worldview of the writers, things just sort of show up in the text. It’s an exercise in trying to read it like they would.
Andrew Partington
on May 7, 2015 at 7:18 am
Thankyou for this fantastic podcast! This episode is extremely helpful. I’ve been reading about the historical context of the New Testament and the OT for many years on my own, but then I recently did some theology study at a fairly Presbyterian Bible college and I was always getting in trouble for pointing out bits of the Bible like this.
I really love your approach to scripture and I think it’s the right approach, and I can’t praise your podcast and your websites enough, Dr Heiser! Thankyou thankyou thankyou.
May the Character of God be glorified !—-Even though I am certainly with you in acting LOVING towards the un-purified in their hearts, we should discuss this one. Because we are talking about motives when we talk about mans condition, not outward works they do . I mean, I remember as a non-Christian, before I was in Christ, wanting to passionately do “good” things, but was my motive that I didn’t want to harm others, which is the sum of all goodness? NO a Big NO. I just wanted to make sure I, I, I, I, period, didn’t go to hell, that is all I was really worried about. Frankly, I think this is naïve, and it really concerns me because ,to young believers, it opens them up to being greatly deceived. This would make them naive. The scripture says“Every word they speak is false?”— Also,about the premise of this issue to start ,this ties in with the question about the tribal people who had never had a chance to hear the gospel. The Romans passage you cited, and this one in Acts about Cornelius ,—Correct me if I am wrong, but is this not talking about people who are Saved people, just like all the other people never hearing about Christ , people in the OT ,and tribal people, but who just have not been given the FULLNESS of the Kingdom news ?? I don’t look at those who kept the law , without having it, as un-saved people, or Cornelius as one who was not saved already. And also, I don’t know any one who thinks God is “Angry” at people who are just “brushing their teeth” That image you portrayed of people thinking that way, seems very unrealistic. The whole topic about the love of God is such that it shows us that God comes to people who are Totally at odds with God, JUST by their Motives. And that’s just THE START of their enmity. You would really have to give some more discussion on this one. Cant see it at all. God is light, and the lights are on all motives, ALWAYS.— Now if your heart in this is about how we TREAT others ,in showing them the grace of God, I stand with you in that love.—-Other than that , great teachings again . So exciting. Learning things, left and right.
Peter’s assessment is inspired. If God wanted to add qualifiers they’d be there. God doesn’t get more angry with unbelievers when they live the way he wants people to live — but they also don’t gain brownie points for salvation, as that isn’t based on performance. When the unsaved guy chooses to not cheat on his wife God doesn’t get more angry with him. God says: “Good choice — that’s how you ought to behave. I’m glad you didn’t do something destructive to self and someone else.”
That’s my position in a nutshell.
Another excellent episode!
Thanks!
I love the new format and this on the top of my list to listen to as soon as I see it released! It is awesome to see the Divine Council referenced or alluded to in so many passages! I’m starting to see it myself almost every time I read! Thanks for you diligence and level headed commentary each week!
You’re welcome — when you’re trying to share the worldview of the writers, things just sort of show up in the text. It’s an exercise in trying to read it like they would.
Thankyou for this fantastic podcast! This episode is extremely helpful. I’ve been reading about the historical context of the New Testament and the OT for many years on my own, but then I recently did some theology study at a fairly Presbyterian Bible college and I was always getting in trouble for pointing out bits of the Bible like this.
I really love your approach to scripture and I think it’s the right approach, and I can’t praise your podcast and your websites enough, Dr Heiser! Thankyou thankyou thankyou.
you’re welcome!