Just wanted to leave some encouragement and let you know I am enjoying Leviticus series so far. Keep up the good work
MSH
on September 1, 2015 at 11:41 am
Thanks!
Christopher
on August 31, 2015 at 1:04 pm
Just a question here, really to work this out in my own mind correctly – If the people are needing to bring an offering so as to enter God’s presence and not get killed (because it is so dangerous to be in His presence without a Mediator), isn’t the main reason that they deserve to be killed in His presence is that they are unholy (i.e., sinners) when compared to His holiness.
I mean, this is a sin issue on some level, right? Maybe not directly, i.e., the offering isn’t meant to provide the actual forgiveness of sin. But, still the offering is meant to provide access to God because of the inherent sinfulness and unworthiness of the worshipper. The root of the problem is still sin and the sinfulness that separates man from God is being dealt with by the offering – allowing access to God when otherwise it could not be granted, right?
Would I be correct in making that subtle distinction?
I can then see how Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross then meets all nuances of sacrifice and offerings in the Law. He mediates this interaction between God and hopeless Man by protecting us from God’s wrath via the offering of His own self on the cross (in the manner which you cite here in Leviticus 1), His blood separately serving as a means by which our sins are forgiven as well. Christ then dealing with our sinfulness on every level by His one act on the cross that fulfilled all sacrifical and offering requirements in the Law.
MSH
on September 1, 2015 at 11:48 am
Yes, humanity is “unholy” in that, by definition, we are unfit to occupy the space God occupies. Eden (pre-fall) was the exception — and the model, as I talk about in The Unseen Realm. Christ’s work makes those who embrace it fit for God’s presence (for God’s home once more).
Christopher
on August 31, 2015 at 1:23 pm
I would just add to the above that, would it be correct to think that the lesson here being taught is that even the “profane/ordinary” isn’t “good enough” or “holy enough” to approach God? This meant to put you in your place still having to acknowledge your own inherent imperfect (and therefore “sinful”) state, in need of some sort of supernatural remedy beyond your own “good works”?
I like taking that kind of angle on this stuff (when I teach my Sunday School class), but, I want to make sure the text gives me the leeway to do that.
MSH
on September 1, 2015 at 11:40 am
I think so – even when there’s no sin issue, coming into God’s presence was dangerous — humans just don’t belong there, but God in his grace permits it.
Aaron
on August 31, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Man, you hit hard on a few points that I can relate to!
1) idols.
I’m not sure how familiar you are with the Thai culture Dr Heiser but they moved away from trying to make idols look like their “deified form”.
Being a Muay Thai instructor I learn quite a bit about Thai culture and history, and they build “Spirit houses” where the “house spirit” resides.
This is one area where you can come and pay homage to the spirit of the family.
They also reside in the threshold of the house, which is why you are always to step over the threshold, never on it.
I thought you would find this interesting because they believe the spirit to live within much like the ancient cultures did, even going so far as to call it a “spirit house”.
Something similar when you step into the ring, before you perform the Ram Muay(ritual dance to warm the muscles for combat) you walk around the ring to “seal it” so that evil spirits cannot interfere with the combat.
2) Western church.
This has been the reason I’ve been heavily studying E. Orthodoxy, because I’m tired of “Church with Jimmy Kimmel”.
I still attend the same C&MA church I have been, however even he(the pastor) has been drifting into that mindset: trying to create a more sacred environment, the Eucharist every Sunday, which he even referred to it as this last Sunday.
I’m waiting for him to break out the incense, lol!
However yes, I think western theology has failed miserably, I even have friends that have gone into Islam because they said they couldn’t stomach western church anymore.
Ironically I showed them an E. Orthodox church and they would like to attend because they said it looks “real”,and not so “man made”.
This is the sad state of American theology.
3) I’m so thrilled with your work (as are my other deep thinkers) that we are using it this season for our study group, taking it a section at a time so we have time for deeper study on it!
Good news is that we do have both our churches looking into your work, so I’m hoping to get you out here this year!
Godspeed, KruJuice, BCS.
MSH
on September 1, 2015 at 11:38 am
awesome – and very interesting. I LOVED the “Church with Jimmy Kimmel” line!
Hanan
on August 31, 2015 at 5:25 pm
A few question
You mentioned at 47:14 (regarding the incense) that “that is what they imagined God wanted). Now if scripture is inspired, or if that part is from Moses, what does it mean they they imagined it was God wanted as opposed to what God actually wanted?
Regarding sacred space, does this help us understand incidences like:
1) The sons of Aaron being killed for bringing an alien fire to God
2) Uzzah dying after trying to make sure the Ark did not tip over.
3) In the book of Judges, when the Philistines return the ark on a wagon, thousands are killed in some village for celebrating the return of the ark.
MSH
on September 8, 2015 at 11:04 am
I can’t find this at 47:04 of the podcast, which is basically the end. I want to hear it in context.
On the sons of Aaron, we’ll get to them in a future episode.
On Uzzah, no one (not even those who transported it) were allowed to touch the ark once it was sanctified for service (hence the poles). It was the object most associated with God’s presence (it even bears the name in a passage).
On the ark and the Philistines, that’s 1 Samuel 4-6. I presume you mean the men of Bethshemesh who looked into the ark (1 Sam 6). Seventy died, not thousands. To look into it they would have had to remove the lid. They’d been warned not to touch it.
Hanan
on September 8, 2015 at 11:13 am
Yes, Samuel 6.
You would translate that as looking IN the ark? I thought it was merely saying they looked AT the ark.
preposition beth – could be either. I think “in” makes sense because people looked at the ark at other times (when it was taken out to battle, for instance) and there was no ill effect.
Just wanted to let you how much I have enjoyed your Leviticus 1 teaching. It has already enriched my study in I Corinthian 6 particularly. I’m looking forward to next week!
Chris of the Delany clan.
on September 3, 2015 at 1:23 am
Hello Mike. A few questions.
Can a ‘Spirit’ repent ?
Is there anything in scripture that says ‘humans’ are the only beings God has reserved for forgiveness’i.e, to be saved.
Obviously a ‘spirit’ has more skillz than ‘humans’ in a sense of being more aware of what is. So does that imply ‘spirits have no excuse for sinning therefore , can not be forgiven?
Is there any example in scripture that refers to a ‘spirit’ being forgiven? I notice this is actually quite common in many pagan writings.
MSH
on September 8, 2015 at 10:56 am
There’s no example that I’ve ever come across. In theory, given freedom as part of imaging, they could, presuming God allowed it. It’s interesting that in 1 Enoch the Watchers *are* repentant and God refuses to pardon them.
Stephanie Senthirajah
on September 4, 2015 at 10:33 am
I never thought anything in the book of Leviticus would lead to an “aha moment” but your discussion on sacred space and the attitude with which one approaches their time with God was very thought provoking. Thanks!
MSH
on September 8, 2015 at 10:40 am
hope more are reading this – SEE, you can learn something from Leviticus! Thanks.
Just wanted to leave some encouragement and let you know I am enjoying Leviticus series so far. Keep up the good work
Thanks!
Just a question here, really to work this out in my own mind correctly – If the people are needing to bring an offering so as to enter God’s presence and not get killed (because it is so dangerous to be in His presence without a Mediator), isn’t the main reason that they deserve to be killed in His presence is that they are unholy (i.e., sinners) when compared to His holiness.
I mean, this is a sin issue on some level, right? Maybe not directly, i.e., the offering isn’t meant to provide the actual forgiveness of sin. But, still the offering is meant to provide access to God because of the inherent sinfulness and unworthiness of the worshipper. The root of the problem is still sin and the sinfulness that separates man from God is being dealt with by the offering – allowing access to God when otherwise it could not be granted, right?
Would I be correct in making that subtle distinction?
I can then see how Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross then meets all nuances of sacrifice and offerings in the Law. He mediates this interaction between God and hopeless Man by protecting us from God’s wrath via the offering of His own self on the cross (in the manner which you cite here in Leviticus 1), His blood separately serving as a means by which our sins are forgiven as well. Christ then dealing with our sinfulness on every level by His one act on the cross that fulfilled all sacrifical and offering requirements in the Law.
Yes, humanity is “unholy” in that, by definition, we are unfit to occupy the space God occupies. Eden (pre-fall) was the exception — and the model, as I talk about in The Unseen Realm. Christ’s work makes those who embrace it fit for God’s presence (for God’s home once more).
I would just add to the above that, would it be correct to think that the lesson here being taught is that even the “profane/ordinary” isn’t “good enough” or “holy enough” to approach God? This meant to put you in your place still having to acknowledge your own inherent imperfect (and therefore “sinful”) state, in need of some sort of supernatural remedy beyond your own “good works”?
I like taking that kind of angle on this stuff (when I teach my Sunday School class), but, I want to make sure the text gives me the leeway to do that.
I think so – even when there’s no sin issue, coming into God’s presence was dangerous — humans just don’t belong there, but God in his grace permits it.
Man, you hit hard on a few points that I can relate to!
1) idols.
I’m not sure how familiar you are with the Thai culture Dr Heiser but they moved away from trying to make idols look like their “deified form”.
Being a Muay Thai instructor I learn quite a bit about Thai culture and history, and they build “Spirit houses” where the “house spirit” resides.
This is one area where you can come and pay homage to the spirit of the family.
They also reside in the threshold of the house, which is why you are always to step over the threshold, never on it.
I thought you would find this interesting because they believe the spirit to live within much like the ancient cultures did, even going so far as to call it a “spirit house”.
Something similar when you step into the ring, before you perform the Ram Muay(ritual dance to warm the muscles for combat) you walk around the ring to “seal it” so that evil spirits cannot interfere with the combat.
2) Western church.
This has been the reason I’ve been heavily studying E. Orthodoxy, because I’m tired of “Church with Jimmy Kimmel”.
I still attend the same C&MA church I have been, however even he(the pastor) has been drifting into that mindset: trying to create a more sacred environment, the Eucharist every Sunday, which he even referred to it as this last Sunday.
I’m waiting for him to break out the incense, lol!
However yes, I think western theology has failed miserably, I even have friends that have gone into Islam because they said they couldn’t stomach western church anymore.
Ironically I showed them an E. Orthodox church and they would like to attend because they said it looks “real”,and not so “man made”.
This is the sad state of American theology.
3) I’m so thrilled with your work (as are my other deep thinkers) that we are using it this season for our study group, taking it a section at a time so we have time for deeper study on it!
Good news is that we do have both our churches looking into your work, so I’m hoping to get you out here this year!
Godspeed, KruJuice, BCS.
awesome – and very interesting. I LOVED the “Church with Jimmy Kimmel” line!
A few question
You mentioned at 47:14 (regarding the incense) that “that is what they imagined God wanted). Now if scripture is inspired, or if that part is from Moses, what does it mean they they imagined it was God wanted as opposed to what God actually wanted?
Regarding sacred space, does this help us understand incidences like:
1) The sons of Aaron being killed for bringing an alien fire to God
2) Uzzah dying after trying to make sure the Ark did not tip over.
3) In the book of Judges, when the Philistines return the ark on a wagon, thousands are killed in some village for celebrating the return of the ark.
I can’t find this at 47:04 of the podcast, which is basically the end. I want to hear it in context.
On the sons of Aaron, we’ll get to them in a future episode.
On Uzzah, no one (not even those who transported it) were allowed to touch the ark once it was sanctified for service (hence the poles). It was the object most associated with God’s presence (it even bears the name in a passage).
On the ark and the Philistines, that’s 1 Samuel 4-6. I presume you mean the men of Bethshemesh who looked into the ark (1 Sam 6). Seventy died, not thousands. To look into it they would have had to remove the lid. They’d been warned not to touch it.
Yes, Samuel 6.
You would translate that as looking IN the ark? I thought it was merely saying they looked AT the ark.
וַיַּךְ בְּאַנְשֵׁי בֵית-שֶׁמֶשׁ, כִּי רָאוּ בַּאֲרוֹן יְהוָה
preposition beth – could be either. I think “in” makes sense because people looked at the ark at other times (when it was taken out to battle, for instance) and there was no ill effect.
Just wanted to let you how much I have enjoyed your Leviticus 1 teaching. It has already enriched my study in I Corinthian 6 particularly. I’m looking forward to next week!
Hello Mike. A few questions.
Can a ‘Spirit’ repent ?
Is there anything in scripture that says ‘humans’ are the only beings God has reserved for forgiveness’i.e, to be saved.
Obviously a ‘spirit’ has more skillz than ‘humans’ in a sense of being more aware of what is. So does that imply ‘spirits have no excuse for sinning therefore , can not be forgiven?
Is there any example in scripture that refers to a ‘spirit’ being forgiven? I notice this is actually quite common in many pagan writings.
There’s no example that I’ve ever come across. In theory, given freedom as part of imaging, they could, presuming God allowed it. It’s interesting that in 1 Enoch the Watchers *are* repentant and God refuses to pardon them.
I never thought anything in the book of Leviticus would lead to an “aha moment” but your discussion on sacred space and the attitude with which one approaches their time with God was very thought provoking. Thanks!
hope more are reading this – SEE, you can learn something from Leviticus! Thanks.