“The idea of subordinating the law was actually not unique in Paul’s day. The idea that the mosaic law could be looked at by Jews as NOT the apex of God’s revelation or the apex of God’s plan… that actually wasn’t new to Paul…”
You then cite Stewart’s paper where Stewart says that there are parallel subordinations of the mosaic law in I Enoch and Jubilees… which are in favor of salvation for the whole world (13:36 marker).
That got me thinking of Matthew Theissan’s book, “Contesting Conversion: Genealogy, Circumcision, and Identity in Ancient Judaism and Christianity” which David Burnett cited in his podcast with you (episode 61). I haven’t had a chance to read it yet but Theissan basically argues that the prevailing viewpoint was that Judaism was for genealogical Jews only, not Gentiles, and that converts to Judaism were suspect due to race.
That got me wondering if maybe this could have been a factor for I Enoch and Jubilees not being included in the OT canon (assuming they are subordinating mosaic law in favor of salvation for all mankind)???
Not having a chance to read the book yet, I jumped on amazon to quote the jacket description and that only raised even more questions because the jacket says this…
“In the Second Temple period, many Jews began to subscribe to a definition of Jewishness that enabled Gentiles to become Jews. Other Jews, such as the author of Jubilees, found this definition problematic, reasserting a strictly genealogical conception of Jewish identity.”
1) So is Jubilees “reasserting a strictly genealogical conception of Jewish identity?” Or is it subordinating mosaic law in favor of salvation for all mankind (Abrahamic covenant)?
2) And if the “old guard” establishment favored genealogical purity would this have been a factor in excluding books that subordinate mosaic law to salvation for all?
I love every episode of your podcast btw! So much value! Thank you for that you do! Know that you and your ministry are appreciated and prayed for constantly!
Nathan
MSH
on April 10, 2016 at 1:55 pm
Interesting that you mention Thiessen (not sure of my spelling) … David Burnett knows him, and David was my guest for the most recent podcast (ep. 95 – “Resurrection and the Death of the Gods” (from 1 Cor 15). David mentioned his work toward the end — that he really gets the Deut 32 worldview.
Very interesting stuff. Can you instruct me on how to access Stewart’s SBL paper mentioned in the episode?
MSH
on April 10, 2016 at 1:50 pm
email me about that.
Dane Bowersox
on April 9, 2016 at 4:21 am
Great episode. As I was listening to this it struck me that most Christians are missing out on a great deal by not acknowledging that what happened in Genesis 6 was a major deal. Also, is there a way to access the paper you referenced in the podcast? You may have mentioned it but if you did I missed it.
MSH
on April 10, 2016 at 1:39 pm
email me about this.
Carlito
on April 10, 2016 at 9:42 am
Hi Dr. Heiser. Is Stewart’s work available anywhere (I’m not having any luck finding anything)? And do you know of any other material similar to this (Paul, the Law, and fallen being)? This kind of perspective on the Law (Torah) certainly turns many of our traditional views about the Law, legalism, ancient Judaism, and Christian living, the modern Messianic Movement upside down. The idea that the Torah was given as a means of proving one’s loyalty to YHWH is very thought provoking. Thank you very much for sharing Stewart’s work and expounding on it.
MSH
on April 10, 2016 at 1:35 pm
email me about that.
Thabani Maphosa
on February 11, 2017 at 8:56 am
Hi, Dr Heiser, How may i access Tyler Stewart’s article? Thank you
mheiser
on February 20, 2017 at 8:40 pm
subscribe to my newsletter. It has a link to a folder where articles I reference on the podcast are stored.
RandyK
on May 17, 2017 at 6:02 am
Hi, I just listened to podcast 94, “The sin of the watchers….” In this episode you referenced an article by Tyler Stewart. Do you have that article posted somewhere? I also just signed up to receive your newsletter but have not received a newsletter yet. Thank you for this interesting episode.
At around the 11:36 minute marker you say:
“The idea of subordinating the law was actually not unique in Paul’s day. The idea that the mosaic law could be looked at by Jews as NOT the apex of God’s revelation or the apex of God’s plan… that actually wasn’t new to Paul…”
You then cite Stewart’s paper where Stewart says that there are parallel subordinations of the mosaic law in I Enoch and Jubilees… which are in favor of salvation for the whole world (13:36 marker).
That got me thinking of Matthew Theissan’s book, “Contesting Conversion: Genealogy, Circumcision, and Identity in Ancient Judaism and Christianity” which David Burnett cited in his podcast with you (episode 61). I haven’t had a chance to read it yet but Theissan basically argues that the prevailing viewpoint was that Judaism was for genealogical Jews only, not Gentiles, and that converts to Judaism were suspect due to race.
That got me wondering if maybe this could have been a factor for I Enoch and Jubilees not being included in the OT canon (assuming they are subordinating mosaic law in favor of salvation for all mankind)???
Not having a chance to read the book yet, I jumped on amazon to quote the jacket description and that only raised even more questions because the jacket says this…
“In the Second Temple period, many Jews began to subscribe to a definition of Jewishness that enabled Gentiles to become Jews. Other Jews, such as the author of Jubilees, found this definition problematic, reasserting a strictly genealogical conception of Jewish identity.”
1) So is Jubilees “reasserting a strictly genealogical conception of Jewish identity?” Or is it subordinating mosaic law in favor of salvation for all mankind (Abrahamic covenant)?
2) And if the “old guard” establishment favored genealogical purity would this have been a factor in excluding books that subordinate mosaic law to salvation for all?
I love every episode of your podcast btw! So much value! Thank you for that you do! Know that you and your ministry are appreciated and prayed for constantly!
Nathan
Interesting that you mention Thiessen (not sure of my spelling) … David Burnett knows him, and David was my guest for the most recent podcast (ep. 95 – “Resurrection and the Death of the Gods” (from 1 Cor 15). David mentioned his work toward the end — that he really gets the Deut 32 worldview.
Very interesting stuff. Can you instruct me on how to access Stewart’s SBL paper mentioned in the episode?
email me about that.
Great episode. As I was listening to this it struck me that most Christians are missing out on a great deal by not acknowledging that what happened in Genesis 6 was a major deal. Also, is there a way to access the paper you referenced in the podcast? You may have mentioned it but if you did I missed it.
email me about this.
Hi Dr. Heiser. Is Stewart’s work available anywhere (I’m not having any luck finding anything)? And do you know of any other material similar to this (Paul, the Law, and fallen being)? This kind of perspective on the Law (Torah) certainly turns many of our traditional views about the Law, legalism, ancient Judaism, and Christian living, the modern Messianic Movement upside down. The idea that the Torah was given as a means of proving one’s loyalty to YHWH is very thought provoking. Thank you very much for sharing Stewart’s work and expounding on it.
email me about that.
Hi, Dr Heiser, How may i access Tyler Stewart’s article? Thank you
subscribe to my newsletter. It has a link to a folder where articles I reference on the podcast are stored.
Hi, I just listened to podcast 94, “The sin of the watchers….” In this episode you referenced an article by Tyler Stewart. Do you have that article posted somewhere? I also just signed up to receive your newsletter but have not received a newsletter yet. Thank you for this interesting episode.