Just a heads up — this is another Naked Bible rant.
Short answer: It’s by design. For the longer answer, keep reading.
I came across a troubling, but completely predictable, article today by Mark Galli, an editor at Christianity Today, entitled “Yawning at the Word.” It’s about something of which I and my readers are acutely aware: the low tolerance for biblical content in church. If you go to the link you can read the essay in its entirety only if you subscribe to CT. I therefore can’t reproduce the article here, but I’m going to quote from it for the purposes of interaction.
Galli opens this way:
When I preach, I often quote the Bible to drive home my point. I think it more persuasive to show that what I’m saying is not merely my opinion but a consistent theme of Scripture. And to avoid the impression that I’m proof-texting or lifting verses out of context, I quote longer passages—anywhere from 2 to 6 verses.
When I did this at one church, a staff member whom I’d asked for feedback between services told me to cut down on the Scripture quotations. “You’ll lose people,” he said.
What struck me here was the “longer passages” line — defined as 2 to 6 verses. For those the author had in mind I can only say don’t visit this blog. If you lose focus after 2-6 verses I’ll (gladly) put you in a coma.
The author is correct, though. Most of you who come to this blog and others for biblical content do so because you’re starving in your church. The reason typically isn’t that your pastor doesn’t know anything or is too lazy to study. The reason you’re starving for content is because, as Galli points out, that’s by design. Pastors are encouraged (some are brow-beaten, or have their salaries threatened) to dumb-down sermons to be “relevant” and focus on “felt needs.”
On one level, this is understandable. The culture of the information age isn’t swelling with only information. The information superhighway known as the internet is also the entertainment superhighway for people who recoil at the idea of absorbing information. People who are already geared to want to learn (like those of you reading this) bless the web for all its content, though you have to separate the wheat from the chaff, which may or may not be easy. But those predisposed to distraction and who desperately want to be entertained at the expense of learning anything bless the web as well. And there’s more of them than you (us).
The math being what it is, there will be more content intolerant people in your church than not. Most of those really are at church for good reasons: they need the gospel, they’ve come to faith, they want fellowship with other believers, they want to feel needed and forgiven, they need the sort of help that a stable environment of friends and family can give them. And church should meet those needs. The problem is those people bring the reflex of content intolerance with them. Many churches today, instead of seeing this as a both-and problem/solution look at it as an either-or, and then summarily dilute (or just dump) the biblical content in favor of the “felt needs” of attendees.
I’ve run across content intolerance in the classroom as well. Though teaching isn’t my FT thing now, I’ve had thousands of students. A lot (far too many — even in Bible college) would come to class with a look that I came to label as “I dare you not to bore me with the Bible.” (Hence the title for my recent book). My attitude was challenge accepted. It didn’t take long to show people (in public) how much they didn’t know or the problems that existed within the Bible for one of their (or their tradition’s) pet doctrines. Sometimes that got them interested. Sometimes that got me in trouble. (I’ll bet you’re not surprised.)
Galli gives another example of intolerance for Bible content:
Recently in an adult Sunday school class, I heard a detailed and persuasive lecture on a biblical theology of creation. Rather than reading Genesis 1 and just waxing eloquent from that point on, the teacher patiently read passage after passage to demonstrate how central creation is in the Bible even after Genesis, especially in the covenant God made with his people. After class, the moderator for the class suggested that, for the following week, the teacher make room for questions; he suggested the teacher cut down on the reading of so many Bible verses as this would save time and, it was strongly implied, would better hold people’s interest.
Yep — let’s hold people’s interest with something other than Scripture. Like a story. Or maybe some stand-up comedy. How about a juggling act? Is Cirque du Soleil available to present their “ministry” next week? Unless we fill some space with something that will make us laugh or cry we might be forced to think for those few minutes. After all, we have people for 20-30 minutes in a week of 168 hours — we have to cater to them.
I’m sensitive to the retort (despite my sarcasm) — “We have to meet people where they are.” I get that. But here’s one back at you: If we always or mostly “meet people where they are,” then on what basis would we ever expect them to advance in their knowledge of Scripture and their faith? In other words, if all we do is meet them where they are, we’ll never be able to meet them anywhere else.
Galli goes on:
It is well and good for the preacher to base his sermon on the Bible, but he better get to something relevant pretty quickly, or we start mentally to check out. Don’t spend a lot of time in the Bible, we tell our preachers, but be sure to get to personal illustrations, examples from daily life, and most importantly, an application that we can use.
I’ll bet you’ve heard that one before. I’ve heard it ad infinitum. I have some questions. Just what is relevant about being entertained? Put another way, what is godly — or spiritually meaningful — about being hip? Why do so many “personal illustrations” come from a book – or websites that aggregate them? Why is the pastor’s daily life more relevant than the life of a biblical character? Is the account of that biblical life made so tedious or obtuse by the text that we have to mime it in the pulpit? I appreciate applications that are useful — but shouldn’t an application be attached to some specific point (gasp!) in the text so that people can distinguish it from our opinion?
But, Mike, spinning the text into a trendy, hip discussion about “life” is applying the text. Really? Let me tell you what’s actually happening. Since most pastors know that they are dealing with a diverse audience (age, gender, race, ethnicity, etc.) they have to “apply” whatever it is they’re applying in more than one way. The result is often sermons that consist of quoting something in a verse, paraphrasing it, then talking about that paraphrase for the next five minutes, “illustrating” it over and over again. String five of those segments together and you’re pushing half an hour — whoa, time to wrap up! What did we learn today? We learned a range of ways to say the same thing about a few words or lines in the Bible. You emptied the milk bottle again, pastor. Now burp us so we can go home.
You might be chuckling, but the thought doesn’t make me laugh any more. That is the American evangelical pulpit experience on any given Sunday for most Christians today.
If you’re in a reformed congregation, pardon me for not thinking you do much better. I’ve spent years in those circles as well. If all you’re doing is what I’ve described above and then sprinkling some selection from the Westminster Confession or the Heidelberg Catechism into the liturgy before you get to the sermon, big deal. If your people can’t think through that material with their Bible you’ve done nothing more than perpetuate a tradition and shorten the sermon by two minutes. Even if they understand the confessional material, what happens when they read things in the Bible that conflict with wordings in the confession? (If you don’t think that’s a reality, then you haven’t read either very closely — I’ve actually taught a whole adult Sunday School series on that with weekly, specific examples at a Reformed church). What happens when the confessional material doesn’t cover something? More application multiplication? Believe it or not, it’s not uncommon to have folks in reformed congregations filter the Bible through the confessions. If that’s your church, it’s failed to make believers biblically literate. The goal of pulpit ministry is not to perpetuate a Christian sub-culture — it’s to teach the text and its meaning.
But hey, let’s get more practical. Here’s an idea . . . Why not teach your spiritually mature people that it’s their ministry to take the biblical content and help other believers around them to apply it? Wouldn’t it be nice if the pastor actually dispensed content and then application is what small groups were for? Or even better, wouldn’t it be nice if discipleship (read: application) just sort of happened throughout your church outside the 20-30 minutes on Sunday morning? Is that really too much to ask? Is that really so profound an idea? That people who aren’t pastors should be taught they are each responsible for helping everyone apply what they learn? Pie in the sky, Mike. We need to trim more Scripture out of the sermon to make sure application happens. Besides, there aren’t many biblically literate, mature people in my church that would know how to apply Scripture to their lives unless I tell them how to do that — with a clever joke or a story that makes them cry. Actually, that isn’t hard to believe, so maybe you’ve got me.
As a side note, what’s worse about content intolerance is that we’ve now adopted it in place of what used to be called church planting and evangelism. This 4:00 video is an example. As you watch it, ask yourself: Where is the gospel message? I sincerely hope there’s more going on with this effort (six years) than this video presents, but in case not, I have a response: church planting and evangelism is not community organizing. The lost may have our shalom (and they should, unreservedly), but that isn’t the same as God’s shalom. One of those trumps the other (pop quiz).
Truth be told (!) this situation really bothers me. Yes, it’s true. It shouldn’t be the case that I can have more intelligent theological discussions with unbelievers at a UFO conference than I do in church, but that’s happened to me (more than once). It shouldn’t be the case I’ve had hundreds of people tell me that they were so desperate to learn the Bible they had to leave their church. It shouldn’t be that people abandon the faith over “problems” and “contradictions” in the Bible that can literally be resolved in minutes, with copious bibliography to boot. But it happens — far too often. These sorts of things tend to stay with you if you care about Scripture — and that people think well about Scripture.
Years ago I divorced myself from popular Christianity, church “movements” and organizations, denominations, radio preachers, etc., so I don’t know if someone out there is making a real dent in this (on a large scale) or not. But I don’t care. I don’t care because I don’t believe the solution is in hierarchy and organizations. It’s in individuals, pastors or otherwise, who make a commitment to learn all they can and then find others just like them and direct them to content as well (grass roots . . . sounds suspiciously biblical to my ear). I don’t view countering content intolerance as a contest. The people who care about content will always be the minority. So be it. This is why I try to produce content for the non-specialist. But that needs clarification.
By “non-specialist” I mean you (really, anyone who wants content, no matter what level they may be at for processing what I write). I have little interest in spending my time trying to convince the majority that they ought to be interested in the Bible. I’m targeting people who already are. True, some of what I do (like writing for Bible Study Magazine, where what’s in my “Dare You” book appeared first) filters down to the majority and (hopefully) awakens them to how interesting (and practical) Scripture is, but if that’s all I was doing, I’d want to quit. It’s challenging, but not stimulating. I want to give people some meat, not convince them they need to eat.
I’ve been blessed this year to basically devote my FT work time to producing that sort of content. The “Myth book” revision is nearing the 3/4 point, as is the very basic trade book version of that content (aimed at people who need awakening). There’s more beyond the revision planned, whether I get to do that FT like I have this year or an hour here and there on my own time. In an ideal world I’d be able to devote myself FT to that sort of thing, more blogging, and then piggy-backing that stuff onto fiction. But I’ll take whatever time God gives me for it. That’s how I view the mission of anyone who wants to give people biblical content and anyone who wants to take it in. Just keep doing it; there will be a cumulative effect. There was a time when I was a teenager that I didn’t know a single Bible character other than Jesus, Adam, and Eve (not kidding). I know the impact a slow, steady, relentless accumulation of content can have. You just have to find sources. Chances are they aren’t in church. If yours is an exception, you’re exceptionally blessed.
Thank you, Mike! Finally, someone who understands. This is exactly why I don’t attend church anymore. I can’t find one that actually teaches the Bible!
I wonder how much of this has to do with the very recent emergence of “infotainment.” Within the last few generations (Gen Xers and Millenials) American culture has bought into the notion that learning must be fun for it to be worthwhile. That sentiment has invaded the church and it’s no longer acceptable to say, “Listen and learn because you just need to know this stuff.”
Mark, don’t even get me started! 🙂
I think the infotainment trajectory you hit on is part of the problem. It’s both affected education and been perpetuated by the educational establishment. I’ve had a couple recent faculty training sessions (I’m talking local campus situation here – over the past couple of years) where this has stuck out to me. Not only is there a thrust toward being “engaging” in terms of how material is presented, but even in the ways assessment is made – lots of activity-based group work suggestions. And the notion that “you should just know this stuff” to be an informed person is kind of unspeakable. Even if faculty believe it, no one would endorse it as a “teaching strategy.”
Now, since you know me, you know that I’m not a promoter of being boring in the classroom, and don’t think group projects are from the devil (yet). But what I mention goes to the propensity of students to want (in some cases, need) to be entertained, or visually / aurally stimulated, even when it comes to work outside the classroom. It really doesn’t seem as “normal” for students to think critically or carefully or deeply about something. And they often presume participation counts as much as thinking well. I try to adapt by discretely alternating lecture time (which always has slides) and video – covering the same material in two different ways in no more than 30 minute runs. But the aim is still content.
Your job is a lot tougher since they don’t need credits! But at the same time, one would hope they’d get a sense that they DO need to know this stuff.
It hurts to say it, but I do understand.
I’ve been thinking about Steve’s comment throughout the day. I think it’s Pharisaical. The Pharisees weren’t just rule-mongers, another one of their problems was they were always finding a fault with something instead of contributing to the solution. They didn’t want to submit to Jesus’ authority so they checked the fine print of the law and rationalized their way out. I don’t know where Steve lives, but I would guarantee there is a church that preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ within an hour’s drive. If there isn’t, he should plant one!
I’ll let you and Steve hash at that one. My guess is that he’d agree (with the gospel part) but would disagree about there being much beyond that.
Unfortunately, Steve’s statement rings quite true in my ears. I have yet to find a church in my area that sticks to the Word as the only source of truth. Most follow popular teachers (Osteen, Warren, Meyers, etc.), promote their literature both during their services and on their church websites, and purchase sermon series from these questionable “teachers”. Many of our local churches hire prophets to come into the congregation and “prophesy” over people, where is the scriptural basis for such behavior? Have tried talking about scripture with many, they quickly alter the course of their discussion to what they have heard/read/watched from their favorite false teacher. If I dare, even very kindly and with Biblical references, point out the flaws with these teachings I am met with contempt. So, like many, I am left with a few sound online sources, one family member and one friend who are actually truly concerned with sticking to Biblical facts and truths. It saddens me to have to state these things, even more that I cannot find local fellowship with others who truly care about the wonderful truths of the Bible. It is a very lonely place in which to dwell, isolated believers hungry for greater Biblical truth with few willing to sit down and partake with us of the feast sitting right there in front of us. Not convinced that church planting is an option as those that I talk to would much rather follow the false teachers than dig into the Word.
Comments like this make me hurt inside, as I have seen so much of this (and have heard from others in various ways). Folks like you are what inspires me, though. There’s a tenacity that’s encouraging.
Calvary Chapel. Verse by verse. And this is coming from a well educated Notre Dame alumn.
Dr. Heiser, The CT article and the video you included in this post really says it all regarding the majority of our countries pulpits these days. Boy, talk about salt losing it’s flavor. You’re right, very few churches are equipping it’s people to be mature in Christ. I can tell you from experience, I was one who has been effected by this in the past. Other then Christ and the birth of my child, you have changed my life. You are making a difference Dr. Heiser, I have to also include your employer Logos Bible Software and all of it’s employee’s for making available the tools need to bring the Gospel!!
Thanks; I try to be useful. (Logos does as well!)
Mr. Heiser,
I just wanted to thank you for your blogs, various videos/lectures out in the WWW, and articles you have written (being a broke, jobless, SS collecting rock climber it helps to get free material). They have given me the spiritual meat, as opposed to milk, of Scripture. For about eight months now, since my departure from ‘the real world’, I’ve been enveloped in ancient texts, church ‘fathers’, and Scripture. I had never realized how much is in my Bible till now. Your works (Praise be to the Lord) have helped incalculably (I think I made that word up). Amen, Maranatha, and God bless.
Daniel
Thanks – and I understand what you say here. Going after primary texts (like Scripture!) is liberating.
Great rant, Mike. I was waxing similarly last night on a video I happened across while searching for David Flynn’s twin brother. lol. Yeah, really. I’ll not bother you with the details of the video I found, which had nothing to do with Mark. I’ll just let your imagination run wild.
Now that I sufficiently scared you, I also found your comments about the Reformed community very interesting. Being a Confessional Reformed Baptist, we are probably a little different than the more mainline groups, but also probably a lot the same in many respects. I understand the sentiment you express here for sure. I’m not going to give up my Confession, because I find it a helpful guide, fence, and teacher. But it remains that for me, not the end all of my world, even though I confess it. I wish you didn’t feel the need to ditch that kind of thing, but I think I at least understand why you’ve gone the direction you have. I’m on a different track I guess.
At any rate, don’t go getting a big ol’ head now, but I’ve so much appreciated your work ever since I “accidentally” stumbled upon it while preparing for a sermon in Exodus. Suddenly your BibSac article came up in Logos. Then a few months later, something else came up on the web. Just today I was talking with a woman from our church, a Reformed Presbyterian who couldn’t find any deep preaching in her circles, but has come to our church, has patiently let me teach her about my new love for the supernatural worldview, while remaining confessional, all while preaching expositionally through Genesis. I even managed to preach Genesis 1 in a way I think you would like, and didn’t lose anyone in the church! I find that a pleasure to tell you, because it isn’t easy to let people have their different scientific views of the text, while trying to teach them that it isn’t about science. It has been a fun ride and now we are about to enter into the blatant Second Yahweh stuff. Can’t wait.
I do know that there are a few people left who want deep teaching, so I try for their sake (and mine) to give it to them. But I also know that this is not normal in today’s Christianity, really in any circle I can think of, come to think of it.
Some day, Tom and I need to get you to come out to Colorado and do some kind of talk on UFOs or something weird like that. Or maybe just more normal stuff–like how there are many gods but only One True God. 😉
Thanks for the rant,
Doug
Thanks. The reformed Baptists I know and have known are generally pretty serious about Bible content (in the expositional way you note – and the Baptist streak does, I think, help them avoid swapping the tradition for the Bible – unless it’s Spurgeon 🙂 ). But your note about the supernaturalism is well taken. Supernaturalism doesn’t go over that well (in terms of scale) outside Pentecostalism it seems. That’s one thing that will make the appearance of the Myth book interesting, to say the least.
Mike, you’re once more my hero! 🙂
Now, I just have to figure out how to do this where I am!
One question: is it possible to turn all the videos you’ve done into downloadable video files, playable on computers anywhere for audiences? Just wondering (otherwise, you’d have to be hooked up to internet/youtube/vimeo).
on the hero – I’ll tell my wife 🙂
On the videos, I don’t know. I think there is a way to download YouTube stuff (i.e., a downloadable utility). No idea about Vimeo, which is what my church uses.
Good post Mike. We left our last church after a Sunday morning service that literally felt more like a football rally than a church service and started attending the church where you are an elder. We really appreciate the faithful teaching of the Word from Dax and others there. I love Logos and your blog. Looking forward to reading your latest book shortly though I have already seen some of it in Bible Study Magazine. Keep up the good work!
Glad to hear that. Dax tries hard to give people some content. We talk about it as elders from time to time. It isn’t easy since the congregation is a mix (where people are at in terms of what you can assume they know). The “supplemental” classes are part of a strategy to address that, but we think there could be more there. I’m not sure how, if we go to two services, this issue/question will factor in. I think it will depend on format. Any suggestions are appreciated!
I’m so excited to hear that Logos is letting you work FT on your book(s), that is an incredible blessing (for us, as well as you)!
I share your passion for promoting biblical literacy – both directly and indirectly through fiction. I’m just hoping you can go more Indiana Jones (action/adventure) in a future book 🙂
Regarding organizations, I’m sure it wouldn’t hurt if there was one focused on promoting biblical literacy. Keep casting the vision and eventually one (or two) will form.
Now that you mention that, Peter (an organization for promoting biblical literacy), I’m thinking it might help. It certainly would have a niche and couldn’t hurt.
On the writing, we’ll see how that develops.
I’d be interested in knowing if you have caught any of the recent sci-fi / superhero movies and what you think about the messaging.
Mike,
Sorry for not responding sooner — for some reason I didn’t get a notification of your response.
I have Thor 2 & the Avengers, and am really looking forward to the second Captain America movie & the Wachowski Brother’s Jupiter Ascending (not out yet). But I’m not as good at seeing gnosticism & other messaging. I’ll try to make some time to collect my thoughts on things I have noticed into a couple blog posts & send you the links.
thanks – sounds good. Had not heard about Jupiter Ascending.
Mike, I blame your blogs for totally changing how I view scripture years ago. I was one of those people with pretty much zero interest in scripture since I’ve been in church my whole life, and no pastor would say anything that was new to me. I figured I basically knew most of it and going to church was supposed to be an exercise in reminding, not learning. I also blame your blog for alienating me from most of the evangelicals around me who are uneasy about the weird stuff in the first 3/4ths of their Bibles, and for making any pretension I might ever entertain about becoming a pastor nearly impossible. I can only imagine what suffering the poor soul who reads your blog and feels called to be a pastor is setting himself up to endure in the ministry. He will either have to torture his conscience by suppressing all the wonderful, weird truths in scripture to keep his congregation happy or he will have to teach them and suffer inevitably offending his congregation regularly.
Ben, you sound like a poster boy for something, but I’m not sure what! 🙂 I answered your earlier email, too, in case you didn’t check yet.
Just remember, before I ruined you I, too, was ruined!
Pastors really have a difficult job – the ones that want to really teach their people something. All sorts of pitfalls in addition to what you’re describing. I have a lot of sympathy for the conscientious ones. I know I couldn’t do it (for reasons of temperament and personality, mostly).
Friend of mine spent a year in Iraq in 2005 and something he said sort of broke my heart. He said the Iraqi Muslims he came in contact with were crazy asking our soldiers about “why” they were Christians.
They are starving for one of us to give them a good explanation and I cannot help but think many will someday convert when they do.
My friend indicated he never heard a decent explanation and most the guys were believers. Including him.
There’s a fantastic book out called “Searching for Allah, finding Christ” by an Arab Muslim convert to Christ.
That gentleman took quite a while before he ran into an American believer who could express anything at all better than, “cause you ought to”.
wow; that’s disturbing.
It is interesting that the “church” has displayed the same decline into the pit of waste into which the entire country (America) has descended. Not a coincidence. Our poor country is getting hit from every side, and, unfortunately, the “Christian” side just as badly (perhaps that’s not so bad; it separates the men from the boys).
Many decades ago, the church took on the view that evangelism was its forefront goal. Evangelism is well and good, by all means, but that is not the church’s first priority: it is to “Go and make DISCIPLES” not converts. In taking the evangelistic road, we forsake our own, moved away from teaching sound doctrine and from a teaching mindset all together, and…made converts, not disciples——Bible colleges became the new teaching mindset, the place to get taught, which didn’t do much good because real, true Biblical teaching was moving out of the local congregation.
Now, with the crises from all sides that have hit our country, the “church” is neither in the position to survive nor help others (well, not in giving the kind of help they’re supposed to). The true believer is left too often to fend for him- herself, hence the first poster’s comment, “This is exactly why I don’t attend church anymore. I can’t find one that actually teaches the Bible!” That says it all.
May God grant His true believers and seekers of true truth love for and fellowship with each other and strength to get through the coming days.
What you describe always makes me think of the early church fathers — prior to Constantine and Theodotion, when persecution was a real concern, and (if you read Ireneaus, bless that guy) believers were consumed with worldliness. It gives me some hope (outside of a good dose of remnant theology 🙂 ) that if the church could survive then, it’ll make it now.
What you describe always makes me think of the early church fathers — prior to Constantine and Theodotion, when persecution was a real concern, and (if you read Irenaeus, bless that guy) believers were consumed with worldliness. It gives me some hope (outside of a good dose of remnant theology 🙂 ) that if the church could survive then, it’ll make it now.
Mike,
I must concur with the rest of the posters here regarding your “rant”; the ‘infotainment’ aspect of modern-day people’s desires have literally made “church” irrelevant. It is sad but very true. For instance, I believe I have watched most of the video studies you have uploaded and I find the content fascinating as well as informative. Try to get most anyone to sit through something like that (no jab at your technique in the least) and there are yawns within minutes.
You are spot on with the notion that people would rather be “entertained” or “feel good” about was is being presented than actually realizing that learning the material presented, and the relating text, is of the highest importance in one’s life.
I applaud and thank you for your efforts and praise God for the inevitable; there are people who actually search for “meat” to eat.
I hear you, naturally, and thanks.
This prompts me to add a thought. There’s meat to be had even in small portions. Meat is meat. I’m not recommending that our churches morph into seminaries (that’s one of the regular come-backs). Just regular doses of text-based content / text-driven sermons would be good. I think everyone reading in here gets that.
That was an awesome rant! Unfortunately some who think they’ve learned the Bible in church have gone on to write “scholarly works” like how the Bible teaches us the earth is flat. No joke! I just tried reading it today but felt too many IQ points dropping. I know it’s frustrating, but please keep up the good work!
If what you hear in church isn’t regularly challenging you – and I don’t mean guilting you with rules, I mean challenging – , then you’re in the wrong church.
As for “We have to meet people where they are”… How about we take something from someone who is legit one of the smartest men of all time (Paul), then talk about that on a level the rest of us can understand. Cuz that’s enough intellectual stimulation for the rest of your life.
Yesterday, we had a message from Paul on righteousness being a gift through faith… and I’m sorry if that never gets old, but that NEVER gets old. It just doesn’t. Our church has been basically in this topic for 2 years now, and…it.never.gets.old. (maybe longer, but I’m finally “getting it”). Paul was just so brilliant, so far ahead of the rest of us, and when we teach on his writings, it’s challenging and mind blowing.
And this goes for teens as well. I’ve taught on this righteousness being a gift, not a work, all year and the kids are challenged and want to know more.
“How do we live by faith and not works? What does that mean when I’m dating and tempted!?” Good freaking question, asked by a high school student, excited and scared at the idea.
My default, programmed answer began, “Well this and that is too far… WAIT A MINUTE! That’s not what Paul says! He says to have faith.” EEK. “But what does that mean!?”
This is too good not to grow in. Too exciting. “I hate my dad; how can I love hi? How do I bring faith there?? How can I be Jesus to my dad?” Come on! Legit questions I’ve received in the last few weeks, and my mind wants to bring LAW, but Jesus and Paul say to bring FAITH.
Teens (and adults) don’t need to read Paul Lite and they don’t get Holy Spirit Junior. They can handle it, if you’re willing to get messy with them. (If they want entertainment, they know there are other youth groups for them).
Sunday afternoon is the time to be dumbed down (watching NASCAR or napping in the sun). Sunday morning, give ’em meat. If they’re bored, it’s because you’re bored. Jesus ain’t boring. Faith ain’t boring. Grace ain’t cheap. How can someone who is basically infinite be boring? Come on!
Let me add to the kudos of all previous posters. I so look forward to your articles in “Bible Study Magazine” and have just obtained your latest book.
Your article reminds me of 2 Timothy 4:3. Perhaps we’re there.
sure feels like it some days.
I think certain subjects, in a stereotypical way, lend themselves to boredom. From my experience with several years of taking History in high school, my teachers were not very interesting. It was just a matter of regurgitating dates and events of dead people.
That was until one teacher came along who had a gift for turning the subject into something relevant and alive, even for the disinterested student like myself.
In my view there is no 100% concrete solution for adding biblical content into churches beyond making people aware that it is a very important problem in the first place. After that it’s a ymmv thing on both sides of the pulpit.
Great post. All of this makes me miss the old Memra. I learned so much in the courses there.
Thanks for the guilt! 🙂
Mike,
I read your post the first day it came out and I have been mulling over whether or not to respond. As a full time pastor, I read the post from a different perspective than many of your readers, yet agreeing with most of their conclusions. The pervasive demand for feel good sermons is so bad I am contemplating going bi-vocational in order to preach to a few who care rather than try to compete with the Sunday Morning Entertainment Industry (a.k.a. The average American church).
I would like to note that the problem is deeper than just millenials and genXers for when I put scripture in context most of the complaints I receive actually come from those in their 60’s and 70’s. They want three points and a punch line with lots of stories, none of that “boring history stuff.” It is like having two churches, those who seek after God and want the truth of the word preached and then those who want to feel good from the morning sermon and do lots of “good little deeds” for the community to show people we love Jesus, then go live lives contrary to the Word.
The sad part is, when the older folks chase the younger folks away, the problem becomes the bad preacher with no fault from the rest of the community. Not to mention when they look around at the lack of folks between 20-50, it is the current preacher’s fault, not the easy believism taught for decades before this pastor came, the easy believism allowing people to think “hey, I said the prayer years ago, so I have fire insurance,” the easy believism that leaves off the “pick up your cross daily” and the “living sacrifice” out of lives encouraging shallow lives no different from secular society. Sometimes I want to come right out and say, “Do the rest of us a favor and tell everyone you are an atheist or anything else but Christian.”
Just to add to the rant, it does not help when the true faithful just up and leave or quietly let the little old ladies run the church rather than coming alongside the pastor demanding meat from the word; it cuts both ways. Those that stop going to church because “I have not found one to meet my needs” are often part of the problem as they focus on themselves rather than the church universal. Did you think the pastor might give you meat if you helped create a demand for it? People are more likely to want the meat of the word if peer pressure is added to the exhortations from the pastor, rather than just letting the pastor hang out to dry. Some of us pastors feel abandoned by the church just as some church members feel abandoned by their pastors.
I have plenty more I can say, but not the heart to say it. Thanks for letting me contribute to the conversation.
Thanks for this – I’d say it was great, but that word just doesn’t cut it. We all need to hear this.
Personally, the bi-vocational part speaks loudest to me. I don’t believe I could ever do what you do, but when such thoughts as vocational ministry pop into my head, the only way I can envision it would be a scenario where my salary is not beholden to a congregation. I feel exactly the way you do – be there and do what you do for the people who care.
The ending of your note speaks to me as well. We go to church and are active. I’m an elder. Granted, my situation now is a bit unique (but it’s really the first time in decades I can say that). My attitude toward church is a derivative of the old B. B. Warfield dictum applied to content: “If there’s no fire [content] in the pulpit, then it needs to start in the pew.” But I have not always been in a situation where that’s possible without creating serious friction within the church — something I have never had an interest in doing. Even if I was “allied” with a pastor, the push for more content could have worked against the pastor (my job isn’t on the line, his is). Every situation is different, but I hear you. No doubt some situations are made worse by departures as well.
What a great article…
I myself go to a place where there is hardly any tackling of the Word. Infact you said it all in your article!
I’ve continued going because I believe we need to come together and if everyone who doesn’t agree with how things work walks out then the troubles that come through ignorance will just fall off a cliff. We are needed in these places.
I was so encouraged to read that you only knew Jesus, Adam and eve! It feels like such a hard trek alone…
God bless you all and doing leave those who need you most, that would surely be hiding your light under a bushel. Those ignorant souls won’t be looking to be enlightened in their understanding without some light exposing that ignorance.
Yep; I’m living proof that learning a little bit everyday adds up.
Wow, that was a pretty decent rant, but I admit that half way through it I got bored. There wasn’t enough scripture to keep me interested…
Okay, I read all the article, (and I wasn’t really bored MSH). There are a couple of what I believe to be key things that aren’t directly brought up. First, the problem of not having a good “theology of the church” is a big contributor to the watered down gospel epidemic. Having run several business and being in church leadership for 15 years now I have to say the main responsibility of the problem falls to the leaders. All organizations’ functionality and impact flow from the top down. I don’t think we can blame the masses for this. Jesus didn’t! He took it to the leadership. He didn’t even blame the culture! He instead brought the kingdom, as should we. Unfortunately, even after formal training many pastors don’t know what the CHURCH IS. How can the culture be affected by the church if the people running it can’t properly quantify what it is and what it does. The reason many people think church is a building or a service on Sunday is because the leaders do also. One major result of bad “theology of the church” is poorly structured church government, which leads to a misrepresentation of what a pastor is supposed to do or can and can’t do. (One of the great movements (there are several) that has brought this to the forefront and teaches restoration of the church and is a church planting movement is New Frontiers.) My point is, we should start with understanding what the church is, or rather who (it’s us). Second, pastors shouldn’t fear reading as much scripture and teaching meaningful weighty gospel as they want. If people are leaving and the true gospel and kingdom is being represented then there is another problem. When the supernatural is happening and the Word is rightly being proclaimed people show up in droves. The gospel is power! It works! Either the pastor isn’t leading and teaching as he should or he just doesn’t know out of ignorance or bad tradition. There are other things as well, but I thought this should be mentioned. We in the west need to take responsibility for the faults in the church and pray it through to kingdom success. Tim Keller addresses another issue contributing to the problem regarding how we evangelize in his essay “The Gospel and the Supremacy of Christ in a Postmodern World”. It’s a good read. Thanks MSH
The comment about church governance was interesting. I tend to agree in the sense that I wish I saw more church leadership freeing the pastor to devote serious time to Scripture and then publicly supporting that effort. Too often pastors are expected to do so many other things. A lot of people consider the pastorate as getting paid to do Bible study, but the reality is far from that. I know a lot of pastors that lament being able to spend time in the text and none who wish they could cut back.
“…what the church is”
That is the crux of the matter. The overwhelming majority of what is called “Church” is nothing more then a “tax-exempt religious organization”
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/501
and, unfortunately, that is how they are run. Why not understand that a true church is recognized as “Mandatory Exception”
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/508
and is NOT required to “petition” [beg, pray] the State for “tax-exempt status” which, ironically, disqualifies the organization as a church.
If the bureaucracy and ‘IRS’ obligations were removed from church affairs, think of how much more time and resources could be spent getting into the faith and presenting “meat”.
one would hope that would the result of this hypothetical; but it wouldn’t shock me if the savings were wasted.
Nor would it shock me either.
However, awareness of the truth regarding “what the church is” can only help matters of the true ecclesia.
A man of your obvious passion for “what the text says” can understand the real meaning of “church” as presented by Jesus of Nazareth, and; that the modern-day “Church” is a volunteer slave to corporate legalism.
The text has the answers and I applaud people like you Mike who concentrate on “getting it right”.
MSH,
We had lunch together earlier this year before I moved on from Logos – I was a OSX developer there for a short while.
This particular is something that I’ve kind of rolled around in my head a lot. I disagree profoundly with the “system” that pops out pastors into preordained roles and teaches them they must drive the church. That does no good to anyone, including the poor pastor. But what to do with the total church with its widely divergent population?
A few thoughts have come to mind:
– The “elect” is indeed a small number, and many professign Christians will not be saved. That is a doctrine, but it doesn’t jibe well to me with the grace and mercy of God. I don’t buy it.
– Total lack of teaching leaves only those who are given the grace of God for really “catching fire” and studying Him. I think that this might have a note of truth.
– A culture of dependence upon a pastor (priest?) leaves the lay people wanting more but not being taught to learn Him personally leaves them somewhat destitute. This has a note of truth as well.
– Only the “10%” of people really care about study. This is something I’ve observed when working as a TA. The top X% did great, the rest “meh”, the bottom Y% failed. Shouldn’t great teaching address all the listeners? (But how to bring home meat to people who are hungry and have already gone as far as they can?)
– Churches I’ve visited are open meetings – anyone of any understanding can be in the open teaching, rather than breaking out by unbeliever/new believer/experienced believer. Maybe instead of having to weigh the message for all, breaking the message by audience would be more ideal? It doesn’t seem to work very well to break out by demographic though. Division isn’t natural in Christ.
I’ve visited quite a few churches in the last two years and nearly without fail the Sunday morning service was a kind of show – 2-4 songs, a prayer, a homily of “how to live better with sprinkles of scripture”, 1-3 songs, end. Mix in offering and communion to taste. It’s pretty well scripted much like a high-end secular band or other secular event. If the band has high energy, “God moved” is commonly reported. I have attended secular concerts with more energy and thus find the attaching of divinity to exciting music a bit far-fetched (though music can help one consider God, no question about it).
I’m not personally in agreement with the idea that this sequence is the best format for all times and all groups of believers. Having the rhythm every week certainly gets one into a groove without too much considering…. personal experience talking. :-/
Homilies are generally “be a better person, in these ways”. Sometimes they are political, sometimes they are addressing a current event. Rarely do they deal with actual bible content as content; rarely do they deal with topics beyond the milk of salvation (a good topic, but a bit old hat after a few years of study after one’s been saved).
The best teaching I’ve heard in years at a regular church is the Church of the Undignified in Seattle, a Nazarene-affiliated church. It’s an unusual operation but the topics are not natively simple.
Do we meet people where they are? Well…. “I have called my son out of Egypt”, to put a Scriptural reference on it. Yes, the Lord meets people and brings them out of the place they are in. There is a consistent pattern to move people to a better place of understanding… to reference the name change signifying the inner change – Abram->Abraham; Jacob->Isreal, Isrealites->Hebrews, Saul->Paul, Simon->Peter. We are born from above (baby), but are called to become “mature” to “grow up” in Him. (Thought as a child, spoke as a child, etc). To find things out is given to royalty; as adopted children of the king of Heaven – it is given to us to learn Christ. In sum (and to preach to the choir) I do not think that it is a divine model to encourage ignorance.
I think that the calling is clear: every member of the body of Christ is to be fully functional, fitted together smoothly in Him according to the gifts and calling of the individual operating in harmony with the others for the equipping of the others and the maturation of all. It might not be the season in the world to dwell on scholarly things (has it ever?), but without the bible, it becomes difficult to equip the other saints without working on anecdote, which is both bad theology and bad science.
I don’t have any particular suggestions which would magically force everything better, but I *do* think that (1) deemphasizing the “routine” church, (2) emphasizing solid teaching, and (3) focusing on supporting each member to function both individually and corporately on a more spiritual level (something more eternal than coffee server…) would go a long way.
Regards,
Paul
I remember, but didn’t know you had moved on. I also think election has been fundamentally misunderstood. You raise some good (and familiar / similarly experienced) points. I think your conclusion is certainly in the right direction.
Thanks for your reflections, Mike. This is a constant source of frustration for me, too. In the charismatic circles I move in, it tends to take the form of an element of Scripture (e.g. God’s loving care as a Father) being blown out of all proportion, creating a new ‘canon’ of ideas that are the only ones discussed, with selected verses brought in to back that new canon up.
Although I now differ with you on several points of Biblical interpretation, you’ve been a key influence in getting me interested in Biblical studies and theology: I’ve bought quite a few books on your recommendation, and the general themes of your Myth book have been very influential for how I approach the Bible in the first place. So keep going!
thanks for the note; glad to hear it; that’s the goal.
I read sites like this and people like you and I wonder, “why don’t they can’t they bring themselves to seriously get down the plausibility that the Bible, as all the other religious writings, is a hoax?” What’s so compelling about this particular collection face of so many problems, external and internal? (Never mind that there are several Bibles, Jewish, the Catholic, the Protestant, etc.)
Hasn’t the delusion gone on long enough?
Because of the incoherence of that proposition. For starters, you apparently assume that ancient people thought like modern conspiracists – or moderns. The notion that they couldn’t be honestly writing something or experienced something and then wrote about it shows a hermeneutic of suspicion, which is distinctly (perhaps exclusively) modern. In short, modern mindsets applied to ancient texts are of little use since they IMPOSE on the texts. Let’s stop that madness first.
As a new Christian (Jan this year), I started out on my journey with exuberance, which quickly became trepidation, as I realised that it wasn’t going to be easy finding the right church that would help me become more Christ-like. Ironic, really.
It’s sad to see that the “why-to” become a Christian is talked about more than the “how-to.” You may find this article interesting (it shows how this need is far-reaching):
https://billmuehlenberg.com/2015/02/17/whatever-happened-to-teaching-in-the-churches/#comment-375117
Rather than dedicate time looking for that rare church first and foremost, I decided to get to know God on my own. My hunger was immense, and I knew that it needed to be satisfied by learning as much as possible. It hasn’t been easy. It is a difficult path to traverse when new – there is so much info out there to weed through.
I am currently reading books on how to study the Bible, and thought I’d share this with you:
“When pastors come to know their Bible, and get imbued with its lore
and anointed by the Spirit through whom it speaks, “sermonizing” will
give place to the kind of preaching that God bids us to preach, the
exposition of His Word, which is not only much easier to do, but
correspondingly more fruitful in spiritual results. And, it is the kind
of preaching that people want to hear, the converted and the
unconverted, the rich and the poor. A wide experience convinces me of
this. Here is the minister’s field, his specialty, his throne. He may
not be a master in other things, but he must be a master of God’s Word.
“The really great preachers today, the MacLarens, the Torreys, the
Campell Morgans, are all Bible expositors. George Whitefield, in Boston,
had a congregation of two thousand people at six o’clock in the morning
to hear him “exposit the Bible.” The people trod on Jesus to hear the
Word of God, and if pastors only knew it, it is the way to get and to
hold the people still.”
– “How to master the English Bible” by James M. Gray (Foreword by John MacArthur) Kindle Edition
Funnily enough (or maybe not), two of my favourite overseas pastors are both expositor preachers. They were the only two who resonated with me when I started out. So you see – even the new people are looking for (need) the truth. And not just on a Sunday morning.
Here’s to a revival…